Am I crazy? UChicago vs. Northwestern Forum

[jonny09x1]

Have narrowed my choices down to UChicago and Northwestern but couldn't be more indecisive as to where I should go. Looking for some great wisdom from all you folk here on TLS!

Financial Aid: 60k total from NU, 0 initially from Chicago (just submitted reconsideration form, but don't expect much)

Financing: Fortunately I will be receiving help from my family to cover costs, so finances aren't the end all be all here. However, it is not a nonfactor.

Background: Fresh out of school, not much crazy work experience. I've done some legal work in IP/media and finance (enjoyed the former MUCH more than the latter).

Career goals: Hoping for big law for at least 4-7 years, in more of a soft IP role. Am taking the flexible approach to my career so I'm not zeroed in on any particular field of law. In a perfect world I would work in the sports/entertainment industry. Yes, I know this is very difficult (I'll go about this carefully as to not shoot myself in the foot) but fortunately I have made some decent connections in entertainment law and with a figure in the NFLPA and the legal department of an NFL team. I also see myself transitioning in-house after working in big law (assuming the sports thing doesn't work out).

Location: From the midwest, would prefer to either stay in Chicago or go out west (no real connections or reason to go out there, just an innate desire to live in Cali).

Why Chicago? - growing up in the midwest, UChicago was always known as the class institution of the region. I never imagined being accepted here to be honest. Its employment outcomes are amazing, and it seems to be the much safer route in terms of securing a future. The new work they're doing in conjunction with Booth (forgot the name of the program) is very innovative and they really seem to cultivate a unique type of student. The school also affords great geographic flexibility for its graduates.

Why Northwestern? - Northwestern is also very prestigious where I'm from. It's employment outcomes in terms of big law are rather fantastic considering where it sits according to USNews (f them). Here's where it becomes more of a contrast between NU and UC. I felt like I fit in more at NU, the atmosphere was much more relaxed. I'm personally not much of an academic, and highly value being able to balance my life in a way that maximizes my scholastic abilities. With that said, I also feel the pressure of what's to come at Chicago in terms of where I stand against the rest of the class. Based on conversations I had at both ASWs and mock classes I attended, I felt like I had a better chance of doing better within the curved system. I also didn't really like the quarter system at Chicago. Finally, downtown chicago >>>>>>>>> hyde park.

Anyone want to give me some insight? I really feel like I'd be insane not to go to Chicago given how great of an opportunity it is, but I am a little worried about being well below median. I feel like 3 years at northwestern would be much more enjoyable, but I might end up regretting making that decision when I'm beginning or in the midst of my career.

Thanks

[igo2northwestern]

Take a look at these two websites, which break down employment:

NU: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... yers/2013/
UoC: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... yers/2013/

The number you should be comparing is the Unemployment Number, not the Jobs Requiring Bar Passage %. A lot of NU students elect to go into business jobs because they literally don't want to do law. Some of those jobs (a lot of those jobs) are much more difficult to get than a Biglaw gig. So when you're looking at NU's unemployment (5.6%) and UoC's unemployment (2.8%), the difference is not so pronounced. That said, clerking/academia is clearly better at UoC; but it doesn't sound like you're going in that direction.

I think since the financials work out (aka: the NU financial game is a bit is sweeter than UoC), you should to NU. This is because you're saying that you'd be happier here, which matters a whole lot over the course of 3 years.

[Florence Night]

.

[anon369]

All that being said, employment opportunities from UC are really, really good. As you said, UC is the king of the Midwest (and it will probably get you out west more easily than NU, though I'm speculating a bit here). The faculty is full of legal rock stars who are also mostly really good teachers and actually teach 1L classes. And, least importantly, the quarter system does have some upside: having September off each year (though you're doing OCI the Sept before 2L) and being totally "off" on spring break 2L and 3L because you're between quarters is nice.

When you say the employment opportunities at UC, do you mean the quality of employment opportunities/ graduates getting their top (or close to it) choice? I'm in a somewhat similar position as OP, and my gut is that I would have better options at UChi, but its hard to know since NU's employment stats are so high. Sorry if this is a dumb question. (I'm not interested in biglaw, so that's sort of why I'm wondering about the quality/prestige of employment options available at the two)

[Mal Reynolds]

what's your lsat/gpa

[igo2northwestern]

All that being said, employment opportunities from UC are really, really good. As you said, UC is the king of the Midwest (and it will probably get you out west more easily than NU, though I'm speculating a bit here). The faculty is full of legal rock stars who are also mostly really good teachers and actually teach 1L classes. And, least importantly, the quarter system does have some upside: having September off each year (though you're doing OCI the Sept before 2L) and being totally "off" on spring break 2L and 3L because you're between quarters is nice.

When you say the employment opportunities at UC, do you mean the quality of employment opportunities/ graduates getting their top (or close to it) choice? I'm in a somewhat similar position as OP, and my gut is that I would have better options at UChi, but its hard to know since NU's employment stats are so high. Sorry if this is a dumb question. (I'm not interested in biglaw, so that's sort of why I'm wondering about the quality/prestige of employment options available at the two)

Anon -- you misquoted, so I'll chime in here (I would not be caught dead calling UC the king of the midwest ). Since you're not interested in Biglaw, consider UoC for its academic & clerkship placements.

The clerkship placements on Law School Transparency (http://www.lstscorereports.com) show that Northwestern placed 7.7% into fed clerkships (22 students), and Chicago placed 10.2% (22 students). Northwestern had a larger class size in 2013 -- the year they got that data.



Responding to OP's California preference, since Florence Night commented on it, I'll say that every single person I know who got big law and initially had CA in his/her sights, got CA Biglaw. Tons of people here go west, and this is because firms recruit here during OCI.

That said, I know at least 2 V15 Biglaw firms' flagship offices who did not hire a single UoC student in their 2013 summer class, despite hiring NU students. So I don't think UoC actually confers an advantage in reaching higher firm rankings (or employment in California for that matter).

[2014]

Fresh out of school at NU would horrify me. You are competing with people who on average have 2+ years of work experience which means better resumes and likely more experienced interviewers. You have to make up that deficit somehow and you can only count on so many of them being awkward enough to give you a default leg up.

If that is all the cost difference is (ultimately less since NU has higher COA) then I'd go UChi every time in this scenario, but I will get called a homer.

[igo2northwestern]

Fresh out of school at NU would horrify me. You are competing with people who on average have 2+ years of work experience which means better resumes and likely more experienced interviewers. You have to make up that deficit somehow and you can only count on so many of them being awkward enough to give you a default leg up.

If that is all the cost difference is (ultimately less since NU has higher COA) then I'd go UChi every time in this scenario, but I will get called a homer.

Those who were fresh out of school here had no problem. Actually a friend of mine who did not have work experience did better than the whole lot of us in our closer group of friends.

It's less about needing to interview better than people with work experience--the competition is more about grades, which happens at any law school. Also, the difference between having 1 year of work experience (which is what a lot of people have) and having none is pretty small in my opinion; but NU does still have the blanket reputation for having experiences before law school + reasonable personalities due to its own school interviewing program.

[Ricky-Bobby]

If that is all the cost difference is (ultimately less since NU has higher COA) then I'd go UChi every time in this scenario, but I will get called a homer.

You are a homer, but you're my favorite homer. I can always count on reading a pro-Chi viewpoint when 2014 comes to town.

[omzster67]

Fresh out of school at NU would horrify me. You are competing with people who on average have 2+ years of work experience which means better resumes and likely more experienced interviewers. You have to make up that deficit somehow and you can only count on so many of them being awkward enough to give you a default leg up.

If that is all the cost difference is (ultimately less since NU has higher COA) then I'd go UChi every time in this scenario, but I will get called a homer.

This is something that I have definitely worried about. Northwestern stressed that employers love them as a whole because of their more experienced background. If anyone else has more anecdotal evidence about this it would be appreciated.

Good luck to OP

[lecsa]

Fresh out of school at NU would horrify me. You are competing with people who on average have 2+ years of work experience which means better resumes and likely more experienced interviewers. You have to make up that deficit somehow and you can only count on so many of them being awkward enough to give you a default leg up.

If that is all the cost difference is (ultimately less since NU has higher COA) then I'd go UChi every time in this scenario, but I will get called a homer.

Agree - remember, you're competing against your classmates for callbacks.

I didn't even apply to NU because I had no work experience and didn't want to compete with people 4 years older than me that did.

[ansteam]

All that being said, employment opportunities from UC are really, really good. As you said, UC is the king of the Midwest (and it will probably get you out west more easily than NU, though I'm speculating a bit here). The faculty is full of legal rock stars who are also mostly really good teachers and actually teach 1L classes. And, least importantly, the quarter system does have some upside: having September off each year (though you're doing OCI the Sept before 2L) and being totally "off" on spring break 2L and 3L because you're between quarters is nice.

When you say the employment opportunities at UC, do you mean the quality of employment opportunities/ graduates getting their top (or close to it) choice? I'm in a somewhat similar position as OP, and my gut is that I would have better options at UChi, but its hard to know since NU's employment stats are so high. Sorry if this is a dumb question. (I'm not interested in biglaw, so that's sort of why I'm wondering about the quality/prestige of employment options available at the two)

Anon -- you misquoted, so I'll chime in here (I would not be caught dead calling UC the king of the midwest ). Since you're not interested in Biglaw, consider UoC for its academic & clerkship placements.

The clerkship placements on Law School Transparency (http://www.lstscorereports.com) show that Northwestern placed 7.7% into fed clerkships (22 students), and Chicago placed 10.2% (22 students). Northwestern had a larger class size in 2013 -- the year they got that data.



Responding to OP's California preference, since Florence Night commented on it, I'll say that every single person I know who got big law and initially had CA in his/her sights, got CA Biglaw. Tons of people here go west, and this is because firms recruit here during OCI.

That said, I know at least 2 V15 Biglaw firms' flagship offices who did not hire a single UoC student in their 2013 summer class, despite hiring NU students. So I don't think UoC actually confers an advantage in reaching higher firm rankings (or employment in California for that matter).

Your point may or may not be true, but this is silly reasoning (it just tells you who accepted offers, not how many offers were given out to each school/what a firm thinks of each school). You can also easily find examples that go the other way: per the summer classes thread, Paul Weiss (V15, to use your cutoff) and Irell (more selective than most V15) didn't hire a single NU student in their 2014 summer class, despite hiring UoC students, and there are more UofC students than NU students at S&C/Cravath/DPW/K&E Chicago/Debevoise despite UoC having a smaller class size. And then you've got firms like Wachtell, Boies, and Keker (LinkRemoved), which don't even do OCI at NU, when they do at UoC.

[igo2northwestern]

All that being said, employment opportunities from UC are really, really good. As you said, UC is the king of the Midwest (and it will probably get you out west more easily than NU, though I'm speculating a bit here). The faculty is full of legal rock stars who are also mostly really good teachers and actually teach 1L classes. And, least importantly, the quarter system does have some upside: having September off each year (though you're doing OCI the Sept before 2L) and being totally "off" on spring break 2L and 3L because you're between quarters is nice.

When you say the employment opportunities at UC, do you mean the quality of employment opportunities/ graduates getting their top (or close to it) choice? I'm in a somewhat similar position as OP, and my gut is that I would have better options at UChi, but its hard to know since NU's employment stats are so high. Sorry if this is a dumb question. (I'm not interested in biglaw, so that's sort of why I'm wondering about the quality/prestige of employment options available at the two)

Anon -- you misquoted, so I'll chime in here (I would not be caught dead calling UC the king of the midwest ). Since you're not interested in Biglaw, consider UoC for its academic & clerkship placements.

The clerkship placements on Law School Transparency (http://www.lstscorereports.com) show that Northwestern placed 7.7% into fed clerkships (22 students), and Chicago placed 10.2% (22 students). Northwestern had a larger class size in 2013 -- the year they got that data.



Responding to OP's California preference, since Florence Night commented on it, I'll say that every single person I know who got big law and initially had CA in his/her sights, got CA Biglaw. Tons of people here go west, and this is because firms recruit here during OCI.

That said, I know at least 2 V15 Biglaw firms' flagship offices who did not hire a single UoC student in their 2013 summer class, despite hiring NU students. So I don't think UoC actually confers an advantage in reaching higher firm rankings (or employment in California for that matter).

Your point may or may not be true, but this is silly reasoning (it just tells you who accepted offers, not how many offers were given out to each school/what a firm thinks of each school). You can also easily find examples that go the other way: per the summer classes thread, Paul Weiss (V15, to use your cutoff) and Irell (more selective than most V15) didn't hire a single NU student in their 2014 summer class, despite hiring UoC students, and there are more UofC students than NU students at S&C/Cravath/DPW/K&E Chicago/Debevoise despite UoC having a smaller class size. And then you've got firms like Wachtell, Boies, and Keker (LinkRemoved), which don't even do OCI at NU, when they do at UoC.

Normally, I'd say that your comment is pretty reasonable. But what happened at those two firms was a very substantial difference between NU and UoC hires. I'm not even talking about 0 UC students vs. 1-2 NU students, which might be the reverse phenomenon you are observing at some of the firms you've listed -- think 0 vs 8+. As for PW and Irell, I'd check on that when the summer rolls around because I'm aware of many people in the last two years from NU who ended up at those firms. I'd also check on the S&C and K&E numbers because we have a huge class this year for both. I don't have numbers for Boies/Wachtell, but I agree that the fact they don't do OCI here is telling; not sure whether this information is really all that dispositive for the purposes of this thread or a school comparison more generally, since I'd be surprised if Wachtell takes more than 2 from UoC. Do you know how many students actually go to the firms you listed? Because then we can settle the argument without much further conjecture.

[WheninLaw]

Normally, I'd say that your comment is pretty reasonable. But what happened at those two firms was a very substantial difference between NU and UoC hires. I'm not even talking about 0 UC students vs. 1-2 NU students, which might be the reverse phenomenon you are observing at some of the firms you've listed -- think 0 vs 8+. As for PW and Irell, I'd check on that when the summer rolls around because I'm aware of many people in the last two years from NU who ended up at those firms. I'd also check on the S&C and K&E numbers because we have a huge class this year for both. I don't have numbers for Boies/Wachtell, but I agree that the fact they don't do OCI here is telling; not sure whether this information is really all that dispositive for the purposes of this thread or a school comparison more generally, since I'd be surprised if Wachtell takes more than 2 from UoC. Do you know how many students actually go to the firms you listed? Because then we can settle the argument without much further conjecture.

Had an offer at Irell - there are no NU summers there. I also had an offer from Munger - there were 7 UoC CBs, and 1 NU CB. You can certainly try and argue that general biglaw placement is the same, but at the more elite firms - Chicago blows NU out of the water.

In terms of Wachtell - there are five going from UoC this summer. Seven got offers. It's dispositive.

[igo2northwestern]

Normally, I'd say that your comment is pretty reasonable. But what happened at those two firms was a very substantial difference between NU and UoC hires. I'm not even talking about 0 UC students vs. 1-2 NU students, which might be the reverse phenomenon you are observing at some of the firms you've listed -- think 0 vs 8+. As for PW and Irell, I'd check on that when the summer rolls around because I'm aware of many people in the last two years from NU who ended up at those firms. I'd also check on the S&C and K&E numbers because we have a huge class this year for both. I don't have numbers for Boies/Wachtell, but I agree that the fact they don't do OCI here is telling; not sure whether this information is really all that dispositive for the purposes of this thread or a school comparison more generally, since I'd be surprised if Wachtell takes more than 2 from UoC. Do you know how many students actually go to the firms you listed? Because then we can settle the argument without much further conjecture.

Had an offer at Irell - there are no NU summers there. I also had an offer from Munger - there were 7 UoC CBs, and 1 NU CB. You can certainly try and argue that general biglaw placement is the same, but at the more elite firms - Chicago blows NU out of the water.

In terms of Wachtell - there are five going from UoC this summer. Seven got offers. It's dispositive.

Since you are matriculating to Irell (saw the correction), you probably know the NU students who were there last summer/will be working there full time..

I'll give you Wachtell and Munger; I actually know only a few students who've gotten Wachtell, and the person who got Munger last year turned down the offer, so I'm not aware of the people going to those firms. Apart from the recruiting at two firms -- two very sought after firms, sure -- wouldn't it be pretty silly reasoning to conclude that "at the more elite firms - Chicago blows NU out of the water"?

Does S&C fall out of your definition for a "more elite firm"? K&E? Simpson? Such that it's worth turning down $60k?

Last question: are those Wachtell numbers representative of recruiting there at UoC generally? Because then you're talking about a pretty substantial disparity between Wachtell recruiting at Columbia vs. Chicago as well.

[WheninLaw]

Normally, I'd say that your comment is pretty reasonable. But what happened at those two firms was a very substantial difference between NU and UoC hires. I'm not even talking about 0 UC students vs. 1-2 NU students, which might be the reverse phenomenon you are observing at some of the firms you've listed -- think 0 vs 8+. As for PW and Irell, I'd check on that when the summer rolls around because I'm aware of many people in the last two years from NU who ended up at those firms. I'd also check on the S&C and K&E numbers because we have a huge class this year for both. I don't have numbers for Boies/Wachtell, but I agree that the fact they don't do OCI here is telling; not sure whether this information is really all that dispositive for the purposes of this thread or a school comparison more generally, since I'd be surprised if Wachtell takes more than 2 from UoC. Do you know how many students actually go to the firms you listed? Because then we can settle the argument without much further conjecture.

Had an offer at Irell - there are no NU summers there. I also had an offer from Munger - there were 7 UoC CBs, and 1 NU CB. You can certainly try and argue that general biglaw placement is the same, but at the more elite firms - Chicago blows NU out of the water.

In terms of Wachtell - there are five going from UoC this summer. Seven got offers. It's dispositive.

Since you are matriculating to Irell (saw the correction), you probably know the NU students who were there last summer/will be working there full time..

I'll give you Wachtell and Munger; I actually know only a few students who've gotten Wachtell, and the person who got Munger last year turned down the offer, so I'm not aware of the people going to those firms. Apart from the recruiting at two firms -- two very sought after firms, sure -- wouldn't it be pretty silly reasoning to conclude that "at the more elite firms - Chicago blows NU out of the water"?

Does S&C fall out of your definition for a "more elite firm"? K&E? Simpson? Such that it's worth turning down $60k?

Last question: are those Wachtell numbers representative of recruiting there at UoC generally? Because then you're talking about a pretty substantial disparity between Wachtell recruiting at Columbia vs. Chicago as well.

I think it is much less silly than your "UoC is weird" comment. Sorry if I'm being sort of a jerk here, but that sort of thing really irritates me. Do not forget that I advocate NU in this situation, because going to a school because of its clerkship/elite firm placement is silly.

Yeah, S&C would fall out of that definition. I think of Keker, MTO, Keker, W&C, etc.

[ansteam]

Normally, I'd say that your comment is pretty reasonable. But what happened at those two firms was a very substantial difference between NU and UoC hires. I'm not even talking about 0 UC students vs. 1-2 NU students, which might be the reverse phenomenon you are observing at some of the firms you've listed -- think 0 vs 8+. As for PW and Irell, I'd check on that when the summer rolls around because I'm aware of many people in the last two years from NU who ended up at those firms. I'd also check on the S&C and K&E numbers because we have a huge class this year for both. I don't have numbers for Boies/Wachtell, but I agree that the fact they don't do OCI here is telling; not sure whether this information is really all that dispositive for the purposes of this thread or a school comparison more generally, since I'd be surprised if Wachtell takes more than 2 from UoC. Do you know how many students actually go to the firms you listed? Because then we can settle the argument without much further conjecture.

Had an offer at Irell - there are no NU summers there. I also had an offer from Munger - there were 7 UoC CBs, and 1 NU CB. You can certainly try and argue that general biglaw placement is the same, but at the more elite firms - Chicago blows NU out of the water.

In terms of Wachtell - there are five going from UoC this summer. Seven got offers. It's dispositive.

Since you are matriculating to Irell (saw the correction), you probably know the NU students who were there last summer/will be working there full time..

I'll give you Wachtell and Munger; I actually know only a few students who've gotten Wachtell, and the person who got Munger last year turned down the offer, so I'm not aware of the people going to those firms. Apart from the recruiting at two firms -- two very sought after firms, sure -- wouldn't it be pretty silly reasoning to conclude that "at the more elite firms - Chicago blows NU out of the water"?

Does S&C fall out of your definition for a "more elite firm"? K&E? Simpson? Such that it's worth turning down $60k?

Last question: are those Wachtell numbers representative of recruiting there at UoC generally? Because then you're talking about a pretty substantial disparity between Wachtell recruiting at Columbia vs. Chicago as well.

From the summer classes thread:

Cravath: 8 UoC, 2 NU
S&C: 7 UoC, 2 NU
K&E Chi: 17 UoC, 13 NU

(Picking these firms out because you mentioned S&C and K&E, and because Cravath has the big differential you were talking about.)

The difference is actually bigger when you take class size differential into account (using a class size ~215 for UoC, and ~260 for NU). If you equalize it with UoC having NU's 260 students, this becomes:

Cravath: 9.6 UoC, 2 NU
S&C: 8.5 UoC, 2 NU
K&E Chi: 20.6 UoC, 13 NU

Again, it's silly to go by accepted offers, but we don't know how many extended offers there were. It's also silly to be picking schools based on differences in placement at "elite" firms, but there's some evidence to suggest that placement isn't equal at a certain level.

Anyway, sorry for derailing OP, hope the thread can get back on track.

[beepboopbeep]

With that said, I also feel the pressure of what's to come at Chicago in terms of where I stand against the rest of the class. Based on conversations I had at both ASWs and mock classes I attended, I felt like I had a better chance of doing better within the curved system.

This tells you exactly nothing about how you'll do grades-wise. Also, it's curved at UofC as well (same as everywhere else).

It sounds like you're wanting to justify NU but feel like it's objectively dumb. It's not. Yes, UofC has a tangible advantage at the more selective boutiques both in Chicago and CA, and gets more appellate clerkships relative to NU (even though total fed clerk % are roughly approximate). It's just unlikely those advantages will make or break your career. NU and UofC seem to place roughly equally in most Chicago biglaw (K&E, Sidley, Schiff, Jenner, etc - both schools kill it) and if your aim is to stay in IL, fungible schools + 60k cost difference (though less, since northside/loop >>> southside in terms of rent cost) = NU.

Personally the cost difference isn't enough for me to pick NU, but that's relative to career goals. If it's just Chi/CA biglaw you're aiming for, it's 100% justifiable to take the money and run. I say this as a UofC 1L.

ETA: haven't gone through OCI here yet, so I don't know if the work experience relative to the rest of your class thing really matters. But I will say you would not be out of place as a KJD here.

Last question: are those Wachtell numbers representative of recruiting there at UoC generally? Because then you're talking about a pretty substantial disparity between Wachtell recruiting at Columbia vs. Chicago as well.

WLRK lists 19 UofC attorneys currently at the firm, and 1 from NU. 40-ish from CLS.
S&C: 26 UofC, 11 NU
Irell: 9 UofC, 2 NU
MTO: 5 UofC, 0 NU
For what it's worth, K&E has 100+ from each.

I'm cherry-picking a bit, but you get the idea. Of course, current attys /= summer class, but I didn't feel like searching through three years of summer class threads.

[igo2northwestern]

Normally, I'd say that your comment is pretty reasonable. But what happened at those two firms was a very substantial difference between NU and UoC hires. I'm not even talking about 0 UC students vs. 1-2 NU students, which might be the reverse phenomenon you are observing at some of the firms you've listed -- think 0 vs 8+. As for PW and Irell, I'd check on that when the summer rolls around because I'm aware of many people in the last two years from NU who ended up at those firms. I'd also check on the S&C and K&E numbers because we have a huge class this year for both. I don't have numbers for Boies/Wachtell, but I agree that the fact they don't do OCI here is telling; not sure whether this information is really all that dispositive for the purposes of this thread or a school comparison more generally, since I'd be surprised if Wachtell takes more than 2 from UoC. Do you know how many students actually go to the firms you listed? Because then we can settle the argument without much further conjecture.

Had an offer at Irell - there are no NU summers there. I also had an offer from Munger - there were 7 UoC CBs, and 1 NU CB. You can certainly try and argue that general biglaw placement is the same, but at the more elite firms - Chicago blows NU out of the water.

In terms of Wachtell - there are five going from UoC this summer. Seven got offers. It's dispositive.

Since you are matriculating to Irell (saw the correction), you probably know the NU students who were there last summer/will be working there full time..

I'll give you Wachtell and Munger; I actually know only a few students who've gotten Wachtell, and the person who got Munger last year turned down the offer, so I'm not aware of the people going to those firms. Apart from the recruiting at two firms -- two very sought after firms, sure -- wouldn't it be pretty silly reasoning to conclude that "at the more elite firms - Chicago blows NU out of the water"?

Does S&C fall out of your definition for a "more elite firm"? K&E? Simpson? Such that it's worth turning down $60k?

Last question: are those Wachtell numbers representative of recruiting there at UoC generally? Because then you're talking about a pretty substantial disparity between Wachtell recruiting at Columbia vs. Chicago as well.

From the summer classes thread:

Cravath: 8 UoC, 2 NU
S&C: 7 UoC, 2 NU
K&E Chi: 17 UoC, 13 NU

(Picking these firms out because you mentioned S&C and K&E, and because Cravath has the big differential you were talking about.)

The difference is actually bigger when you take class size differential into account (using a class size ~215 for UoC, and ~260 for NU). If you equalize it with UoC having NU's 260 students, this becomes:

Cravath: 9.6 UoC, 2 NU
S&C: 8.5 UoC, 2 NU
K&E Chi: 20.6 UoC, 13 NU

Again, it's silly to go by accepted offers, but we don't know how many extended offers there were. It's also silly to be picking schools based on differences in placement at "elite" firms, but there's some evidence to suggest that placement isn't equal at a certain level.

Anyway, sorry for derailing OP, hope the thread can get back on track.

So I probably don't pore over these threads as much as you do, but I know for a fact that some of those numbers are not accurate.

I'm not arguing that the placement is the same--I'm disagreeing that Chicago "blows NU out of the water", especially not to the extent where OP should take on that kind of debt for substantially lower quality of life.

To beep: my point was that at Wachtell, the Chicago numbers this year could not possibly be representative on a year to year basis for the fact that Columbia is usually much more successful.

[jbagelboy]

Wachtell has 45 CLS attorneys, 19 UChi attorneys, and 1 Northwestern attorney. This is because Wachtell doesn't attend Northwestern's on campus recruiting:

http://www.wlrk.com/summerassociates/

I don't think anyone should base their law school choice on their chances at WLRK. It's a pretty selective trajectory from any school, even Yale.

Chicago obviously places in more elite firms than NU, but once you get outside the V10 I don't think it matters. Why do people in this thread care so much about vault rankings?

Also FYI the one Northwestern was magna cum laude, editor of the law review, and clerked on the D.C. Circuit.

[jbagelboy]

To beep: my point was that at Wachtell, the Chicago numbers this year could not possibly be representative on a year to year basis for the fact that Columbia is usually much more successful.

Chicago and Columbia place equally now at firms like Wachtell. If you look at the ranks of the pre-recession generation, i.e. partners, there are more from Harvard and Columbia, but in the past 5 years (the associate class) UChi has been on par.

[WheninLaw]

So I probably don't pore over these threads as much as you do, but I know for a fact that some of those numbers are not accurate.

I'm not arguing that the placement is the same--I'm disagreeing that Chicago "blows NU out of the water", especially not to the extent where OP should take on that kind of debt for substantially lower quality of life.

To beep: my point was that at Wachtell, the Chicago numbers this year could not possibly be representative on a year to year basis for the fact that Columbia is usually much more successful.

If you are so sure, then find other numbers. Seriously, quit with "substantially lower QOL" stuff. You sound like some confused 0L. Most of the NU students I've met have been pretty weird, but I don't peddle that worthless anecdote because it is, well, worthless.

Taking NU with a large scholarship is perfectly defensible in terms of employment outcomes, so why not stick with that?

In terms of elite firms, no matter how much you refuse to believe it, UoC has a very real advantage. Should a 0L pick a school based on that? No.

[ansteam]

.

[IAFG]

UChi has a... special... culture. If you don't think you fit in there, you're probably right, and should run, not walk, to NU.

[Pulsar]

UChi has a... special... culture. If you don't think you fit in there, you're probably right, and should run, not walk, to NU.

Most of the NU people I've met have been way more awkward than my UofC classmates. Always wandering around overdressed, asking for business cards, and neglecting to finish their drinks.