. Forum

[bruinfan10]

.

[lecsa]

If you want to clerk go to HYS. None of those schools are that great for clerking. What is total COA? Still above 150k for Cornell? Not sure I'd go to either of these for clerking.

[rad lulz]

If you want to clerk go to HYS. None of those schools are that great for clerking.

[mt2165]

I say cornell. I mean if you NEED Bay Area then maybe reconsider but if you have substantial saving and have 150 at cornell you're talking about what 10-20k in debt for a t14 education? Pretty damn good.

[Nomo]

The relevant number is total debt at the time of repayment (when the first payment comes due). It should be burned at the front of your mind. What is it for each school? Nobody can help you without knowing that.

[lecsa]

I say cornell. I mean if you NEED Bay Area then maybe reconsider but if you have substantial saving and have 150 at cornell you're talking about what 10-20k in debt for a t14 education? Pretty damn good.

Is this 2000? He's still going to owe at least 100k (including savings which is real money), probably more since Cornell is super expensive.

I don't really like either of these options.

[mt2165]

I say cornell. I mean if you NEED Bay Area then maybe reconsider but if you have substantial saving and have 150 at cornell you're talking about what 10-20k in debt for a t14 education? Pretty damn good.

Is this 2000? He's still going to owe at least 100k (including savings which is real money), probably more since Cornell is super expensive.

I don't really like either of these options.

Tuition is gunna be like what, 185 all three years? Living expenses are gunna be like 15 a year, 20 being VERY conservative. I'm thinking pre-accumulated interest, but if he has substantial savings, which seems to be insinuated by the fact that the OP says saving will knock of 60k, then yeah, you're looking at what, 40-50k tops at graduation?

[rpupkin]

Hey all, for someone interested in clerking and then Bay Area litigation (either biglaw or boutique), what are your thoughts on 40k at Columbia vs 150k at Cornell?

Anecdotes are anecdotes, but I've worked in litigation--summered at big law, later an associate at a lit boutique--in the Bay Area. I've worked with at least two graduates of every other T14 law school, but I've yet to work with a single Cornell grad. Cornell seems to be the least represented in SF of the T14.

Some of that could be due to a combination of self-selection (i.e., everyone who goes to Cornell wants NYC) and Cornell's relatively small class size. But, man, I would not want to be trying for the SF Bay Area market out of Cornell. It's hard enough coming out of CCN.

[lawschool22]

Please post total COA for each school. You can use the spreadsheet I created that can be found in this forum.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=225195

[bruinfan10]

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[Otunga]

I say cornell. I mean if you NEED Bay Area then maybe reconsider but if you have substantial saving and have 150 at cornell you're talking about what 10-20k in debt for a t14 education? Pretty damn good.

Is this 2000? He's still going to owe at least 100k (including savings which is real money), probably more since Cornell is super expensive.

I don't really like either of these options.

Tuition is gunna be like what, 185 all three years? Living expenses are gunna be like 15 a year, 20 being VERY conservative.

15k? Does that mean you have to be a monk?

[lawschool22]

I estimate total COA/indebtedness at Cornell would be 40k and COA at Columbia would be 160k.

And yeah, when I was at an SF biglaw firm (I'm posting this for a friend), I never came across Cornell kids either. I'm worried about that. Tons more Michigan people. Also, I know the top 10-20% Michigan kids have a shot at some kind of AIII clerkship--I figured Columbia might be a lot better and Cornell a little worse?

This is pretty anecdotal. Michigan and Cornell are not going to be materially different for CA biglaw.

[bruinfan10]

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[rpupkin]

I estimate total COA/indebtedness at Cornell would be 40k and COA at Columbia would be 160k.

And yeah, when I was at an SF biglaw firm (I'm posting this for a friend), I never came across Cornell kids either. I'm worried about that. Tons more Michigan people. Also, I know the top 10-20% Michigan kids have a shot at some kind of AIII clerkship--I figured Columbia might be a lot better and Cornell a little worse?

This is pretty anecdotal. Michigan and Cornell are not going to be materially different for CA biglaw.

Yep. Totally anecdotal, as both bruinfan10 and I acknowledged. But you don't even have anecdata to support your claim. What is your basis for asserting that Michigan and Cornell are not going to be materially different for CA biglaw? (We were talking specifically about SF Bay Area big law, but it's fine if you have some information to share about the larger CA market.)

[rpupkin]

This is pretty anecdotal. Michigan and Cornell are not going to be materially different for CA biglaw.

LST puts Cornell CA employment at 7.8%, Michigan is at 10.5% or so--not a huge difference obviously, and I think self-selection might account for a lot of that.

Thanks. It looks like Cornell had 6.3% CA placement in 2012. In any event, the placement difference--while not negligible--is less than I imagined. And, as you suggested, self-selection could account for some or all of the difference. Cornell has a natural home market (NYC); Michigan doesn't.

[PrideandGlory1776]

Dang 40k at Columbia is sweet but 150k at Cornell - barring academia interests Cornell looks pretty darn tempting

[Nelson]

What happened with Berk?

[hcrimson2014]

I say cornell. I mean if you NEED Bay Area then maybe reconsider but if you have substantial saving and have 150 at cornell you're talking about what 10-20k in debt for a t14 education? Pretty damn good.

Is this 2000? He's still going to owe at least 100k (including savings which is real money), probably more since Cornell is super expensive.

I don't really like either of these options.

Columbia is in the upper west side which is far far far more expensive than Ithaca.

[lawschool22]

I estimate total COA/indebtedness at Cornell would be 40k and COA at Columbia would be 160k.

And yeah, when I was at an SF biglaw firm (I'm posting this for a friend), I never came across Cornell kids either. I'm worried about that. Tons more Michigan people. Also, I know the top 10-20% Michigan kids have a shot at some kind of AIII clerkship--I figured Columbia might be a lot better and Cornell a little worse?

This is pretty anecdotal. Michigan and Cornell are not going to be materially different for CA biglaw.

Yep. Totally anecdotal, as both bruinfan10 and I acknowledged. But you don't even have anecdata to support your claim. What is your basis for asserting that Michigan and Cornell are not going to be materially different for CA biglaw? (We were talking specifically about SF Bay Area big law, but it's fine if you have some information to share about the larger CA market.)

My support is the employment numbers. Also my lack of anecdote doesn't prove yours.

[lecsa]

Hey all, for someone interested in clerking and then Bay Area litigation (either biglaw or boutique), what are your thoughts on 40k at Columbia vs 150k at Cornell?

Anecdotes are anecdotes, but I've worked in litigation--summered at big law, later an associate at a lit boutique--in the Bay Area. I've worked with at least two graduates of every other T14 law school, but I've yet to work with a single Cornell grad. Cornell seems to be the least represented in SF of the T14.

Some of that could be due to a combination of self-selection (i.e., everyone who goes to Cornell wants NYC) and Cornell's relatively small class size. But, man, I would not want to be trying for the SF Bay Area market out of Cornell. It's hard enough coming out of CCN.

I think of Cornell as the most regional T-14. At equal cost with any other lower T-14, excluding GULC, I'd probably take the other school over Cornell for non-New York biglaw. I'm not sure what OP's options are here aside from Columbia and Cornell. Between COlumbia and Cornell, I'd go with Cornell at these costs.

[bruinfan10]

.

[jbagelboy]

If you want to clerk go to HYS. None of those schools are that great for clerking. What is total COA? Still above 150k for Cornell? Not sure I'd go to either of these for clerking.

Well, we wouldn't really know this would we, because there probably aren't more than a handful of CLS students really trying to clerk in the ninth circuit @ SF or CA Northern District

Also "clerking" is just a 1 yr means to a leg up in litigation, but it's certainly not a necessary condition. People go to MoFo SF for lit every year.

If OP wants a really selective/obscure litigation boutique in the bay area, the options are basically Stanford or to a less degree Cal.

[rpupkin]

If OP wants a really selective/obscure litigation boutique in the bay area, the options are basically Stanford or to a less degree Cal.

What "selective/obscure" Bay Area lit boutiques hire from SLS but not Boalt?

Most of those boutiques will also hire from Harvard and Yale, by the way.

[heythatslife]

I say cornell. I mean if you NEED Bay Area then maybe reconsider but if you have substantial saving and have 150 at cornell you're talking about what 10-20k in debt for a t14 education? Pretty damn good.

Is this 2000? He's still going to owe at least 100k (including savings which is real money), probably more since Cornell is super expensive.

I don't really like either of these options.

Tuition is gunna be like what, 185 all three years? Living expenses are gunna be like 15 a year, 20 being VERY conservative.

15k? Does that mean you have to be a monk?

15k per year in Ithaca is doable. Admittedly, it was 3-4 years ago so you do have to factor in some inflation but I budgeted $1200/month as an undergrad while at Cornell for living expenses.

[lecsa]

If you want to clerk go to HYS. None of those schools are that great for clerking. What is total COA? Still above 150k for Cornell? Not sure I'd go to either of these for clerking.

Well, we wouldn't really know this would we, because there probably aren't more than a handful of CLS students really trying to clerk in the ninth circuit @ SF or CA Northern District

Also "clerking" is just a 1 yr means to a leg up in litigation, but it's certainly not a necessary condition. People go to MoFo SF for lit every year.

Seriously? Reread the initial post. OP is talking about clerking generally, not just clerking in the 9th circuit. If you want a federal clerkship HYS are the only schools where you have a reasonable shot.