HELP!! UM (Miami) vs USC (Cali)-most relevant employmt data? Forum

[BetterLateThanNever1]

Hi all,

So as the subject conveys, I'm frantically trying to decide whether to stay at home in Miami, or make the jump to Cali. I am a bit in the dark when it comes to analyzing the relevant employment data; I literally don't know what I should be looking at to help me make my decision:
- what numbers are the "truest" indicators of employment prospects?
- what numbers come with caveats?
- what numbers are best for comparison purposes?
- etc etc

Some brief background on me:
- Miami gave me $90k total. COA (just tuition) over 3 years would be $48,500
- USC gave me $77k total. COA (just tuition) over 3 years would be $84,000
- I will be paying with my own money saved from previous work experience
- 3.76 LSDAS GPA, 160/163 on my two LSATs

I already understand the difference in cost of living in each city, the costs I'd face starting fresh across the country vs. driving a few minutes down the highway, etc. My main questions lie in a) which employment data should I be looking at and b) how to interpret the data.

Any info at all here helps a ton and is very much appreciated. Thanks in advance to everyone!

EDIT: I've seen on these forums that USC is kind of considered "overrated" and potentially in a "spiral" of sorts in the rankings. Can anyone speak to this? I'd love to go T-20, but only if the school is a true T-20. Thank you!

[riverwater]

retake 4 better options

[Nomo]

Enjoy: http://www.lstscorereports.com/

[BigZuck]

Big law+clerkships is good for big law minded folks, placement into firms of 10+ attorneys is good for getting a job as a lawyer minded folks. Sometimes you might want to discount firms of less than 10 attorneys (especially solos) and school funded jobs somewhat but that totally depends on the school. If its the state flagship I might be a little less suspicious of the small firm score than if the school was like Barry or something.

Why would you want to go to a school ranked 20 but not one ranked 21? What possible difference could that make?

USC will always be what it is- a strong CA regional school.

You seem to not care about some stuff that really matters (total cost of attendance for one)

Anyway, retake 4 better options

[Nomo]

T-10, T-20, etc. are meaningless designations. Just look at the employment data (LST is the best place to look at data and potential debt, which includes interest, living expenses, etc.).

I think you'll find that your best option is to retake and try again next year. But, I'l let you come to your own conclusion.

[BetterLateThanNever1]

I think you'll find that your best option is to retake and try again next year. But, I'l let you come to your own conclusion.

Don't we only have 3 opportunities to sit within an 18 month span? I don't think its smart or responsible to leave an entire cycle up to 1 more retake. Even if I went up to 165-167, I feel like my options would change to USC with maybe $120k total or NYU/CLS/Penn/etc. at sticker or very close to it.

Nomo, assuming I cap out at 167 max, what would my marginal benefit be to retaking? I am genuinely interested and want as diverse insight as possible.

[BetterLateThanNever1]

Why would you want to go to a school ranked 20 but not one ranked 21? What possible difference could that make?

...

You seem to not care about some stuff that really matters (total cost of attendance for one)

Anyway, retake 4 better options

1) I spent 6 years studying in Gainesville, Fl, I'm at a point where I need to be in a major city. If the 21st ranked school was in DC, Boston, NYC, etc. I would strongly consider. But look at 20-30; based on my preferences I'm not going to live in Tusacaloosa, South Bend, Bloomington, etc. I actually withdrew from Emory because I didn't get enough scholly, and not pursuing my Duke WL because I wouldn't live in Durham, NC at sticker.

2) I am willing to accept $35k more in tuition over 3 years, plus 10-15% higher COL to get higher quality education at USC vs. UM. What other things should I put more focus on. Not a retort or Devil's Advocate, genuinely interested in what I may me overlooking.

3) As far as the retake, see my perspective that I gave to Nomo in my post above.

Thanks for your help, definitely appreciated.

[klondike5]

Disclaimer : I am a 0L like you, currently deciding. I can't speak too much to USC but Miami was a top choice of mine at one point and coming into this cycle I thought I might end up there. Miami should give you more than that, you and I have the same LSAT but your GPA is a full .5 better than mine and I got the same amount. I am also in Florida and grew up a Canes fan and wanted to do UG there, so if I have a bias it is clearly toward UM, but I took them off my list based in part on employment outcome and cost.

Their employment outcomes on LST just can't match USC. The overall employment scores are close (64% for USC and 61% for Miami) but the type of job you get out of Miami is not as good. USC puts 30% in large firms and 4% in federal clerkships. For Miami those numbers are 10% and 1%. Even if you don't want to go to a large firm, having that door open at least has to be positive. I am not particularly interested in that path but I still look at those numbers as an indicator of the type/number of opportunities a particular school can offer. I don't know if that option is worth 12k a year for you though. Do you have any acceptances with scholarship from anywhere closer to USC in ranking that you could use for negotiation? They were never on my radar due to my pitiful GPA so I don't know if they are frugal or even open to negotiation. Also, everybody will tell you to retake so I am not even going to mention it. But you should.

[rad lulz]

Is cost of living free ? If not, add it

Also add interest

[thebobs1987]

Why would you want to go to a school ranked 20 but not one ranked 21? What possible difference could that make?

...

You seem to not care about some stuff that really matters (total cost of attendance for one)

Anyway, retake 4 better options

1) I spent 6 years studying in Gainesville, Fl, I'm at a point where I need to be in a major city. If the 21st ranked school was in DC, Boston, NYC, etc. I would strongly consider. But look at 20-30; based on my preferences I'm not going to live in Tusacaloosa, South Bend, Bloomington, etc. I actually withdrew from Emory because I didn't get enough scholly, and not pursuing my Duke WL because I wouldn't live in Durham, NC at sticker.

2) I am willing to accept $35k more in tuition over 3 years, plus 10-15% higher COL to get higher quality education at USC vs. UM. What other things should I put more focus on. Not a retort or Devil's Advocate, genuinely interested in what I may me overlooking.

3) As far as the retake, see my perspective that I gave to Nomo in my post above.

Thanks for your help, definitely appreciated.

You could always just move to a city without going to law school. Get some ties, save some money, retake, etc

[cron1834]

If you're paying $85k at USC for tuition, then your total COA is probably $160k. That's too much. Over the last several years, USC averages look like this: a little over a third get biglaw or fedclerk, about a third struggle with any employment, and about a third are somewhere in between, with lawyer jobs that aren't biglaw. If you didn't have to pay tuition, I think a lot of people here would sign off on that, but for $160k total COA there's no way. That's too much for the very real chance you won't have any way to pay it back.

/my OL $.02