Making Final Decision- Gtown, GW, ND, UIUC, UK Forum

[ldlamb]

I know there is a whole gamut of topics I am supposed to cover when posting on this board. I am just going to give a quick synopsis instead.

I am in my mid-30's and married with no children. I currently teach high school social studies. I am not keen on doing it for another 30 years. I wanted to go into law when I originally went to school , but made some poor choices then. I feel like with my family's current financial situation I have a second chance. I have a handful of friends that are currently attorneys. They run the gamut from plaintiffs attorneys, civil defense, commonwealths attorneys offices, and state cabinet agencies. My inclination is to work in government, preferably federal, but I know that can be difficult. In the end I am open to most whatever happens. I currently live in Louisville, KY and am from KY originally. I also have family in Chicago and lived in Baltimore, MD for 10 years. My LSAT is a 169 and my LSDAS GPA is 2.8. I essentially went to college twice. I had a 3.9 when I went back, but my first go round was below 2.0.

My wife has a good job and we have been able to save decently well since we have had two incomes and no children. Her job and our savings will allow us to pay for the cost of living and possibly service the interest and have about 30,000 to put towards the tuition. We won't be able to live quite as well as we are now of course, but we can survive on just her income for the duration of law school. Anyway, here are my options. I just want to know if any of these are unreasonable or out of the question. I also want to know if my advanced age should make me lean towards the higher prestige or the lower debt.

3 yr total-------------- Debt load
Georgetown
165k --------------------135k
Geo. Washington
120k ----------------------90k
Notre Dame
75k------------------------ 45k
Illinois
35k----------------- maybe 0, at most 10k
Kentucky
40k -----------------------10k

[WaltGrace83]

Disclaimer: 0L

Scratch Notre Dame, it has no better employment than the others and you don't have ties there. I would scratch Georgetown - too expensive for what it is and George Washington is very similar in its outcomes for 45k less. For me, it would be down to Illinois, Kentucky, and George Washington.

George Washington actually doesn't sound too bad but 90k in debt is still a lot and it doesn't seem to place that much better than Illinois or Kentucky. George Washington would probably give you more a diversified set of options: Big Law, PI, etc. but - as I said - not necessarily a better chance of getting you a job and going to school for basically free is tempting. It all depends on where you want to live. Kentucky might just be the easiest option for you.

[BigZuck]

I would probably just roll with Kentucky here and gun for state/local gov

[ldlamb]

I just thought I should clear one thing up. My wife's job mainly involves working from home and travelling. She uses the Louisville office of her company as her home base but only goes in a couple of times a month. Her company has never asked her to move, but she feels that two of the people who she reports to have implied that they wished she were closer to them. One of those is in Chicago and one is in DC. So the ties for Illinois and ND are that my father lives in Chicago and my wife would be based out of the Chicago office and probably take the train in once a week from Champaign or South Bend.

[Law Sauce]

Disclaimer: 0L

Scratch Notre Dame, it has no better employment than the others and you don't have ties there. I would scratch Georgetown - too expensive for what it is and George Washington is very similar in its outcomes for 45k less. For me, it would be down to Illinois, Kentucky, and George Washington.

George Washington actually doesn't sound too bad but 90k in debt is still a lot and it doesn't seem to place that much better than Illinois or Kentucky. George Washington would probably give you more a diversified set of options: Big Law, PI, etc. but - as I said - not necessarily a better chance of getting you a job and going to school for basically free is tempting. It all depends on where you want to live. Kentucky might just be the easiest option for you.

Disagree. ND and Illinois seems like a good choices depending on goals. ND is fairly cheap and has good regional and some national name recognition. I would also lean GULC over GW because the cost difference is not wide enough to justify GW (even though ppl on here make fun of GULC, GULC is still a t14 that sends ~200+ kids into biglaw and another smaller chunk into big fed each year, GW is not quite on that same level). UK is a really bad idea, unless you really want to gun hard for some small local job that probably does not pay better than you make right now.

I do agree that thinking about ultimate location and goals is important. Is it federal government? Then think about going to GULC (check out their LRAP first) and gunning for jobs in DC (federal hiring is hard though). GW would be second best for this, especially if can use any of the loan forgiveness programs available through your school or government agency, but costs less so the debt would be manageable. Do you want to be in state government or in a small firm? How do feel about living in small smaller city in the midwest? NYC? Do you want a shot at biglaw? Or do you want to stay in KY permanently? (Even for this, ND/IL is still probably a better choice that UK).

For me it comes down to ND/IL (as the cheaper/more modest goal choice) v. GULC (gunning for fed. gov/biglaw/or other harder to get job). There is no way I would go to UK, and GW is not cheap enough to be that much better than GULC (if your COA #s are accurate).

Check out: http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/ ... s/gulc/gw/

[Law Sauce]

I would probably just roll with Kentucky here and gun for state/local gov

http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/ ... notredame/

I mean it all comes down to goals. But IL is possibly cheaper, and ND is only 35k more. I can't see why you go to UK over either one of these at same costs (both are not that far away and could probably get you back). I mean, a lot of ND and IL kids end up in small firm and state government as well, but UK sent only 5 people into large (500+ lawyer) firms. 5! Even if you don't want to go to a large firm, that number shows how little placement power UK has. And OP doesn't seem dead set on staying in ole' Kentuck, but could be wrong.

[thebobs1987]

If you want to be in Chicago, I'd do ND or Illinois. Probably Illinois since ND is not worth 30k more than Illinois.

If you want DC, Gtown or GW are pretty reasonable at that price, but probably need to gun for big law at those prices.

[cron1834]

Illinois or Kentucky. They're affordable and the job outcomes aren't awful-terrible, plus you have ties. That's just too much money for the others

[ldlamb]

Thanks for the responses. Some of it was conflicting, but it was good to get a few other perspectives.

[ndirish2010]

I would go with UK. If you are from Louisville, why have you not applied to UL?

[ldlamb]

I did apply and get accepted to UofL. It just didn't make the final cut.
In Kentucky, UK Law is just a more respected name and has many more alumni in higher gov't positions. Almost all my attorney friends, even the UofL grads, said if the money was remotely the same between the two I should go to UK.

And with that name, why aren't you trying to convince me to go to ND?

[ndirish2010]

I did apply and get accepted to UofL. It just didn't make the final cut.
In Kentucky, UK Law is just a more respected name and has many more alumni in higher gov't positions. Almost all my attorney friends, even the UofL grads, said if the money was remotely the same between the two I should go to UK.

And with that name, why aren't you trying to convince me to go to ND?

It does seem that UK has a better name, but I figured that might be offset by the convenience of not having to move to Lexington. But if you want to end up in state government, UK is probably better.

There's really no compelling reason for you to go to Notre Dame when you could go to UK for almost free. Your shot at a federal government job will be low from either school and your shot at state government should be higher at UK.

[transferror]

UK or UIUC. Either would be fine, just go where you prefer. None of the other schools should be in this conversation.

[ldlamb]

I did apply and get accepted to UofL. It just didn't make the final cut.
In Kentucky, UK Law is just a more respected name and has many more alumni in higher gov't positions. Almost all my attorney friends, even the UofL grads, said if the money was remotely the same between the two I should go to UK.

And with that name, why aren't you trying to convince me to go to ND?

It does seem that UK has a better name, but I figured that might be offset by the convenience of not having to move to Lexington. But if you want to end up in state government, UK is probably better.

There's really no compelling reason for you to go to Notre Dame when you could go to UK for almost free. Your shot at a federal government job will be low from either school and your shot at state government should be higher at UK.

My brother lives in Lexington, I would just stay at his place Mon to Thurs.

But it looks like my wife needs to live closer to Chicago anyway. It looks to be a UIUC/ND decision.

[transferror]

I did apply and get accepted to UofL. It just didn't make the final cut.
In Kentucky, UK Law is just a more respected name and has many more alumni in higher gov't positions. Almost all my attorney friends, even the UofL grads, said if the money was remotely the same between the two I should go to UK.

And with that name, why aren't you trying to convince me to go to ND?

It does seem that UK has a better name, but I figured that might be offset by the convenience of not having to move to Lexington. But if you want to end up in state government, UK is probably better.

There's really no compelling reason for you to go to Notre Dame when you could go to UK for almost free. Your shot at a federal government job will be low from either school and your shot at state government should be higher at UK.

My brother lives in Lexington, I would just stay at his place Mon to Thurs.

But it looks like my wife needs to live closer to Chicago anyway. It looks to be a UIUC/ND decision.

Then UIUC it is. ND isn't worth an extra 45k.

[thebobs1987]

Yeah, if it is Chicago, U of I and ND place almost exactly equal. No point in paying extra for ND

[ndirish2010]

Yeah, if it is Chicago, U of I and ND place almost exactly equal. No point in paying extra for ND

Illinois placed 29.2% into 100+ firms and fed clerkships in 2013, while NDLS placed 33.7%. I know this is not what you are looking for, but it is generally a proxy for school success. However, in Chicago, the schools are probably equal. Thus I would probably go to UIUC. If you were looking to go back to Louisville or go to another market you had ties, NDLS would be better than UIUC. 45K better? I'm not sure. I chose NDLS over UIUC when the difference was about 30K...the fact is if everyone made this decision based on the money, NDLS would not exist because UIUC is always cheaper.

[ldlamb]

Thanks again, for all the help. I deposited at both. I will take the next two weeks to decide. It's tough. I loved my ND visit and being a Midwestern catholic, ND holds a lot of intrinsic appeal, but a 40k is real money.

Much of it may have to do with whether my wife feels Chicago-area is a permanent stop.

[BigZuck]

Thanks again, for all the help. I deposited at both. I will take the next two weeks to decide. It's tough. I loved my ND visit and being a Midwestern catholic, ND holds a lot of intrinsic appeal, but a 40k is real money.

Much of it may have to do with whether my wife feels Chicago-area is a permanent stop.

Just go to Notre Dame bro. It's what you want and the writing is on the wall. Most people here aren't advocating it and it still made your top two. That's fine, YOLO, you don't need to justify it but you're probably not going to find TLS giving its blessing either. So YOLO yourself on down to South Bend.