Berkeley($) vs. Duke($$) for IP - One week to decide! Forum

[aldiddy]

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[rickgrimes69]

Ask yourself if you liked Berk $45k more and you have your answer

[09042014]

I'd go Duke. Getting a jerb in SV isn't hard even without ties. Nobody gives a fuck about their IP program.

Though an argument could be made you could work part time at a firm in SV much more easily if you went to Boalt.

FYI: Patent boutiques are much more accessible than normal boutiques. But they are also typically not much different from IP groups at big firms.

[aldiddy]

I'd go Duke. Getting a jerb in SV isn't hard even without ties. Nobody gives a fuck about their IP program.

Though an argument could be made you could work part time at a firm in SV much more easily if you went to Boalt.

FYI: Patent boutiques are much more accessible than normal boutiques. But they are also typically not much different from IP groups at big firms.

Thanks for the info! Haha I always wondered if there was actually any prestige associated with the IP program...
I'll be in contact with some current Boalt students and see if drafting part-time is a realistic goal.

Though I'd choose Berkeley at equal cost, the price is right at the threshold of making this difficult...

[hcrimson2014]

Duke does better in placement and the prestige edge of Berkeley is largely confined in SF and even there the difference is negligible, so given that Duke actually provided more scholarship, there is no reason to go to Cal.

[transferror]

you're locked with IP, so take the most $$ in the T14 and run

[aldiddy]

Thanks, all!

No one for Berkeley here?

[rpupkin]

I'd go Duke. Getting a jerb in SV isn't hard even without ties. Nobody gives a fuck about their IP program.

That just isn't true. There are great networking opportunities at Boalt if you want to do IP in SF or SV. You'll have more options in the SF Bay Area out of Boalt. DF is right that Bay Area firms will hire IP people from T14 schools without ties, but those same firms generally will dip lower into the class at Boalt. And the connections you'll form at the law school (literally dozens of IP partners in the Bay Area teach there) make it possible to work at firms you might not have a shot at with the same grades out of Duke.

If you have a tech background, it's relatively easy to get a 1L SA (and definitely a 2L SA) even with lousy grades. And if you do well, you'll have post-grad opportunities in tech law (federal circuit clerkships, fellowships) that will be harder to come by out of Duke.

Is that advantage worth $45K? It would be to me, but I can certainly understand going to Duke, particularly if you think you'd rather be in Texas.

[MistakenGenius]

Post removed.

[SLS_AMG]

One good thing about being at Berkeley is that with an IP background I think your chances of getting a 1L SA are very good. I don't know if that's true at Duke, but if it isn't, then that alone would almost make up the cost difference. This is obviously anecdotal, but my 1L year literally every person I knew with an IP background that wanted an SF or SV firms job in IP got one. Every. Single. Person. It obviously was a huge advantage that they could just drive off and do interviews in SF or SV in the middle of the week during February and March when most of those firms hired 1Ls. I just don't know if you could do that from Duke. Just something to consider.

[rpupkin]

You can disagree, but you didn't actually provide any evidence to back you up. Yes, Berkeley will give you more opportunities to network since it's in California (where the OP might want to work), but that is unrelated to their IP program. It's true, no one gives a shit about this IP program.

I'm a California IP associate who has participated in recruiting at Berkeley, and you're a 0L mindlessly echoing memes you've found on the internet. At least DF has been through law school and works in the field. Although I agree with him in general that the content of IP programs doesn't usually affect one's employment prospects, I think he undervalues--in the specific context of Boalt and the Bay Area--the relationship between practicing attorneys and the school's IP program. The networking advantage goes beyond just geographic proximity.

OP: Feel free to PM me if you'd like.

[jk148706]

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[Law Sauce]

Berkeley because you want California and have no ties, and because you want to go there. You should get biglaw with your IP background and 45k is ~1 additional year of repayment. Painful, but not the end of the world.

Both can get you to TX as a back-up, but if CA is your goal, go for it, Berkeley gives you the best shot.

I doubt even all the CA firms (and smaller IP CA firms) even come to Duke's OCI. This is less of a problem if you have ties and go out to CA often enough to seek to get interviews, but it makes it much more difficult if your not there or don't get out there frequently. This is coming from someone who had offers from several markets that I had reason to visit / was close enough to visit for interviews, but who failed to get much traction in a market that I was very interested in that was too far away to easily get to and to which I did not have great ties. Now, this may not apply as much to you trying to go the bay area because it is the premiere place for IP, but it is something to think about.

[Big Dog]

Berkeley is a no-brainer.

[Tanicius]

I'd go Duke. Getting a jerb in SV isn't hard even without ties. Nobody gives a fuck about their IP program.

Though an argument could be made you could work part time at a firm in SV much more easily if you went to Boalt.

FYI: Patent boutiques are much more accessible than normal boutiques. But they are also typically not much different from IP groups at big firms.

Thanks for the info! Haha I always wondered if there was actually any prestige associated with the IP program...
I'll be in contact with some current Boalt students and see if drafting part-time is a realistic goal.

Though I'd choose Berkeley at equal cost, the price is right at the threshold of making this difficult...

Drafting part-time is something one of my friends does. He's probably worked the majority of his time in law school at the SV firm that picked him up as a 1L because of his tech background.

That said, I don't know if it's necessary to do that. Like, it's not necessary at all. Enjoy your three years off from soul-crushing work by going to Duke at cheaper cost and chill out during your time off from class. You don't need to slave away for money that will only barely amount to 45k (if that) in wages after taxes, when you could be just keeping track of your studies and enjoying yourself. Why work like that for three years when you don't have to?

If you didn't have a legitimate tech background, then the story would be different and I'd tell you to take Berkeley. But as it is you will get a job at either school.

[aldiddy]

Great feedback, y'all.

A couple of (100% anecdotal) things that maybe someone can confirm/refute:

-I spoke with a lot of current Duke students at ASW and the general consensus was that getting to CA is possible, but will be difficult without ties. And, yes, they knew I was IP.
-Berkely students seemed to think that getting Austin SA positions, with Tech background as a 1L, was pretty easy (though still more difficult than Dallas/Houston obviously). Duke students told me that Austin was really tough to crack. Was I mislead? Austin would be preferred if I get Texas, but I'd be okay with the larger markets.

Also, can anyone speak to the advantages, disadvantages, or lack thereof of obtaining a job in SoCal from either school? It is clear that Berkeley has an advantage in the Bay Area but what about the rest of the state?

[rickgrimes69]

Great feedback, y'all.

A couple of (100% anecdotal) things that maybe someone can confirm/refute:

-I spoke with a lot of current Duke students at ASW and the general consensus was that getting to CA is possible, but will be difficult without ties. And, yes, they knew I was IP.
-Berkely students seemed to think that getting Austin SA positions, with Tech background as a 1L, was pretty easy (though still more difficult than Dallas/Houston obviously). Duke students told me that Austin was really tough to crack. Was I mislead? Austin would be preferred if I get Texas, but I'd be okay with the larger markets.

Austin is a tough market to crack, period. Anyone from Berk who told you Austin was "easy" to crack is fucking lying to you. Duke is arguably the best non-HYS T14 for TX and it's sure as shit better than Berk.

[Tanicius]

Great feedback, y'all.

A couple of (100% anecdotal) things that maybe someone can confirm/refute:

-I spoke with a lot of current Duke students at ASW and the general consensus was that getting to CA is possible, but will be difficult without ties. And, yes, they knew I was IP.
-Berkely students seemed to think that getting Austin SA positions, with Tech background as a 1L, was pretty easy (though still more difficult than Dallas/Houston obviously). Duke students told me that Austin was really tough to crack. Was I mislead? Austin would be preferred if I get Texas, but I'd be okay with the larger markets.

Austin is a tough market to crack, period. Anyone from Berk who told you Austin was "easy" to crack is fucking lying to you. Duke is arguably the best non-HYS T14 for TX and it's sure as shit better than Berk.

Truth, all of that.

LA, on the other hand, is easy. It's the backup OCI market for most Cal students. Easier than SV or SF to get, even for us.

[aldiddy]

Good to know, tanacius and rg69.

Tanicius, what about San Diego?

Can anyone speak to getting SoCal without ties from Duke?

[Tanicius]

Good to know, tanacius and rg69.

Tanicius, what about San Diego?

Can anyone speak to getting SoCal without ties from Duke?

San Diego requires ties.

[3L2014]

Since you have no ties to CA, Berk will be better for ensuring that you get CA (though Duke certainly will not foreclose you from CA as the IP people do VERY well at Duke--Im sure they do at Berk as well). Duke 1Ls get IP SAs as well. For anywhere other than Duke, take the $$$ is an easy call as its about a full year difference in repayment after taxes.

So it depends how important to you CA is. If CA is a clear top choice, then Berk. If you are fine missing out on CA and going to Hou/Dallas (or NY), then Duke.