UC Davis (90k) vs UC Hastings (sticker/no COL) Forum

[xdskyline]

UC Davis: 30k a year provided I stay above a 2.0, which I think is fairly doable. They also mentioned the possibility of low-interest loans that I haven't looked into yet. Currently higher ranked than Hastings. I went to admit day and really liked the atmosphere. It seemed way more laid back and had a stronger sense of community compared to Hastings, which seems to have a reputation for being a commuter school with a lot of gunners, and I think I'd be happier at Davis. I'm sure TLS will be quick to tell me that that's a weak reason to pick a school.

UC Hastings: Offered me no financial aid whatsoever. I'd be living at home, so the otherwise ridiculously expensive cost of living in SF would be nominal. Seems to have a much stronger reputation than Davis - even though Davis is currently higher ranked, I've noticed people aren't even aware Davis has a law school while having a healthy respect for Hastings. Hastings has a natural advantage in job placement in the Bay Area. Sidenote - Hastings' crappy location doesn't faze me, I've lived in SF most of my life.

I want to work in the Bay Area, specifically SF, which is Hastings territory. I'm not completely sure what I want to do after, but I doubt it would be public interest or government, which would be a strength for Davis. Transactional work appeals to me over litigation, though I've been working at a general litigation firm for the past few years and I think I could do it if I needed a job. I have a minor academic interest in energy/environmental. Realistically I'm not going to end up in biglaw. Again, I'm aware this is fairly vague, but it's the best I can do with my limited real-world experience.

Financially, I'll be taking out loans, but I'll also have help from my parents (ballpark figure 50k).

Davis estimated COA is $68,346 a year, $205,038 over three years. Minus 90k= $115,038. I'd be in debt ~$65k.
Hastings: $50,154 is $150,462 over three years. This is tuition + books/supplies, I've subtracted COL since I'll be living at home. The actual figure will be a bit higher since I'm sure I'll be paying for some COL over the years, but my parents will be covering most of it. I'd be in debt ~$100k.

Simply put: is the 90k at Davis more or less important than the probable career advantage at Hastings?

[SWEDE LAW]

There is no career advantage to Hastings. Even with the discount at Davis tho, that's a lot of money for these career outcomes.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/hastings/2013/

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/davis/2013/

[californiauser]

post total cost of attendance and what type of job you see yourself in post graduation

[xdskyline]

post total cost of attendance and what type of job you see yourself in post graduation

Updated. Post grad future is very vague - I only have first-hand experience in general litigation and while I have interests in a couple other fields, I know how common it is to change your mind once you actually intern/work there. I don't really want to base my law school choice off of unfounded assumptions that I'll like a certain field.

[rpupkin]

UC Davis: 30k a year provided I stay above a 2.0, which I think is fairly doable.

I don't think that really counts as a stipulation. I mean, if you're below 2.0 at UCD, you'd want to drop out anyway, regardless of cost.

They also mentioned the possibility of low-interest loans that I haven't looked into yet. Currently higher ranked than Hastings.

USNWR ranking is irrelevant. These are basically peer schools.

I went to admit day and really liked the atmosphere. It seemed way more laid back and had a stronger sense of community compared to Hastings, which seems to have a reputation for being a commuter school with a lot of gunners, and I think I'd be happier at Davis. I'm sure TLS will be quick to tell me that that's a weak reason to pick a school.

It's a weak reason to pick a worse law school over a better one, but it's a good reason to pick one peer school over another.

UC Hastings: Offered me no financial aid whatsoever. I'd be living at home, so the otherwise ridiculously expensive cost of living in SF would be nominal. Seems to have a much stronger reputation than Davis - even though Davis is currently higher ranked, I've noticed people aren't even aware Davis has a law school while having a healthy respect for Hastings. Hastings has a natural advantage in job placement in the Bay Area.

The job placement statistics do not bare this out. I think UCD and UCH have roughly comparable reputations in SF. Yeah, there are more Hastings alumni in SF offices, but there are also more Hastings students against whom you'll be competing for spots.

I want to work in the Bay Area, specifically SF, which is Hastings territory. I'm not completely sure what I want to do after, but I doubt it would be public interest or government, which would be a strength for Davis.

Sort of. I mean, Davis might be better for state agency stuff in Sacramento (just because it's closer), but it's not like Davis is a PI school while Hastings is a big law school. As others have pointed out ITT, employment outcomes out of both schools are pretty poor.

Transactional work appeals to me over litigation, though I've been working at a general litigation firm for the past few years and I think I could do it if I needed a job. Realistically I'm not going to end up in biglaw.

OK. So put those thoughts together. What is your realistic hope? A small law firm that does contract law or something? Seriously, think this through. The law schools you're considering, and the debt you'll take on in attending them, do not afford you the luxury of figuring it all out as you go.

Simply put: is the 90k at Davis more or less important than the probable career advantage at Hastings?

Like I said, I doubt your premise that Hastings offers you a career advantage over Davis. Given your circumstances, and given your uncertainty about what you want to do in the law, I suggest you consider foregoing law school entirely. But if you must go, I would go to Davis. You liked the atmosphere better and it's cheaper.

[yeslekkkk]

I don't think this should even be a battle between the two. Unless you want to live in the Bay area during law school, Davis for sure. It seems like Hastings is a sinking ship right now. Davis is doing better employment wise (especially for a school in CA). The career services staff seems pretty great, and a large number of their graduates end up in the bay. Don't pay sticker for a 41.6% rate of employment. Over a quarter of their graduates for 2013 were unemployed 9 months later. Not worth it. Davis or don't go.

[The Dark Shepard]

UCH is a no-go even for free, and UCD is a no-go at 200,000.

[shtein]

How is your total COA at Davis ~200,000? Did you not subtract your $90,000 scholarship? Also the $50,000 you say you're getting from your parents?

[xJD2017x]

How far will hastings have to decrease their median to maintain a class over 300 this year?? Judging by LSN(small sample size I know) they might be easily down another 20% in applications. last year they dropped 3 to maintain enrollment.

[xdskyline]

How is your total COA at Davis ~200,000? Did you not subtract your $90,000 scholarship? Also the $50,000 you say you're getting from your parents?

I did not subtract the 90k. Edited to include that figure. Also added the projected debt, not including interest.

[NorCalLaw]

Hastings student here. Despite Dean Wu's supposed class reduction of "25%", our actual class size has only fallen a net ~10% over the past 3 years. Meanwhile, Davis has actually made bigger cuts. That said, Hastings' 41% figure last year was likely a bit of a fluke toward the low end, but it is unlikely to increase to anything better than 50% in the near future. Meanwhile, UCD's numbers will probably improve further by the time you graduate, due to their bigger class cut. Clearly, UCD is a much better choice. Neither is likely to net you a gainful legal job in the Bay Area unless you hit the top 15% of your class or have something special to offer. The Bay Area legal market is small, ultra-competitive, and dominated by Berkeley, Stanford, and T14s coming from out of state. UCLA or USC are much more likely to get you a job in the Bay Area than either Davis or Hastings.

That's really all I have to add. Good luck on whatever you choice, feel free to PM me if you want more information.

[cron1834]

Both of these options are objectively bad, unless you're getting full tuition.

[ManoftheHour]

65k is definitely on the high end of what I'd pay for Davis. I wouldn't do it, but it's WAY better than sticker at Hastings. If you're going to cover your ears and not listen to the advice of the above posters, I'd say pick Davis. It's not even close. Have you checked out LST?

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/davis/2013/

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/hastings/2013/

Hastings student here. Despite Dean Wu's supposed class reduction of "25%", our actual class size has only fallen a net ~10% over the past 3 years. Meanwhile, Davis has actually made bigger cuts. That said, Hastings' 41% figure last year was likely a bit of a fluke toward the low end, but it is unlikely to increase to anything better than 50% in the near future. Meanwhile, UCD's numbers will probably improve further by the time you graduate, due to their bigger class cut. Clearly, UCD is a much better choice. Neither is likely to net you a gainful legal job in the Bay Area unless you hit the top 15% of your class or have something special to offer. The Bay Area legal market is small, ultra-competitive, and dominated by Berkeley, Stanford, and T14s coming from out of state. UCLA or USC are much more likely to get you a job in the Bay Area than either Davis or Hastings.

That's really all I have to add. Good luck on whatever you choice, feel free to PM me if you want more information.

This. Whether intentional or not, Davis lost a QUARTER of their class size (when compared to the previous year).

OP, I think you should PM this guy.

[lecsa]

Find another profession.