No idea what to do: NYU vs Columbia Forum

[tlsapp2017]

I understand that there have been a loooot of threads over the years comparing these two schools, but (even after having read through most of them) I really have no idea what to do. NYU has offered me $12.5K more, but I feel like that's a pretty negligible amount and I don't want $ to be a deciding factor at this point. In fact, my parents suggested that they would be willing to give me around half of that amount (~6K) so that I don't have to make the decision based on money. I'm assuming COL is pretty much equal, but if I'm wrong about that, please correct me.

I'm not sure if I'm interested in PI or Big-Law; I probably want to do some kind of litigation, but I'm not sure exactly what. I definitely have a strong preference for ending up somewhere between DC and Boston. I'd also probably like to clerk for a year out of school, but again, I'm not 100% sure about that either.

I really liked both schools when I visited, and couldn't really find any concrete way to distinguish between the two. I was equally happy with the locations of both schools, and I felt that all of the students I met at both places were very happy (contrary to some of the stereotypes I have read on this board). One slight concern about Columbia/pro for NYU is that I felt like the administration and career services had more personal relationships with the students at NYU, although that also might change next year with Columbia's incoming dean. I did feel that the students at Columbia were a bit younger, which slightly appealed to me as a K-JD (I don't really want to be one of the absolute youngest people in my class), but I also may be wrong about these perceptions, and I get the feeling that I am splitting hairs anyway. Also, I guess people at NYU had more positive things to say about the Lawyering class than Columbia people had to say about Legal Research and Writing. Additionally, I did feel like I "clicked" a little more with the students and admitted students at CLS, but that's probably pretty random because of the weird sample size issues.

In case it's somehow relevant, I have a 3.8x from a top UG and a 173 LSAT.

Any opinions/thoughts would be really appreciated - thanks!

[transferror]

is that 12.5k more overall or per year? Give the total COA for each school.

[banjo]

Here are some pros for CLS:

B- grades are not mandated on the curve. The grades are basically B/B+/A-/A
If you go with UAH, you can live within walking distance of CLS for <$1000 a month.
CLS is surrounded by beautiful parks, churches and libraries. It's walking distance from central park.
The three-year big law + fed clerk average is 73%. The EIP success rate has ranged from 85-90% over the last few years.
Both PI/govt and judicial internships are eligible for summer funding
Free lunch pretty much every weekday. That's where I'm headed now.

As for cons, CON law 1L year. Name says it all.

From an 0L perspective, the student demographics are pretty similar.

http://web.law.columbia.edu/admissions/ ... ss-profile
http://www.law.nyu.edu/jdadmissions/app ... assprofile

[kaiser]

As between NYU and CLS, I would almost always say the best idea is to go to whichever one gives you more $$. Plus, should you decide to go the PI route, NYU is particularly well positioned for that. And of course, if you decide to just do big firm like most people, that is easy. So I'd just take the extra $$. Beyond $$, I'd say pick based on which neighborhood you like more.

[Humbert Humbert]

Here are some pros for CLS:

B- grades are not mandated on the curve. The grades are basically B/B+/A-/A
If you go with UAH, you can live within walking distance of CLS for <$1000 a month.
CLS is surrounded by beautiful parks, churches and libraries. It's walking distance from central park.
The three-year big law + fed clerk average is 73%. The EIP success rate has ranged from 85-90% over the last few years.
Both PI/govt and judicial internships are eligible for summer funding
Free lunch pretty much every weekday. That's where I'm headed now.

As for cons, CON law 1L year. Name says it all.

From an 0L perspective, the student demographics are pretty similar.

http://web.law.columbia.edu/admissions/ ... ss-profile
http://www.law.nyu.edu/jdadmissions/app ... assprofile

Really? Is it pizza every day or do they switch it up?

[banjo]

There's usually a non pizza option. Each morning you receive an email with a list of free lunch events. It's like a little lunch menu. It will tell you if the lunch is pzza or non pizza, what the event is about etc.

[Tiago Splitter]

There's usually a non pizza option. Each morning you receive an email with a list of free lunch events. It's like a little lunch menu. It will tell you if the lunch is pzza or non pizza, what the event is about etc.

Although TBF I've attended multiple "non-pizza" lunches where I ended up being offered nothing but pizza, so there are no guarantees.

I'd agree with others that you should choose whichever one of CLS or NYU is cheaper. That said, I'd take a near full ride at a lower T-14 if I had those numbers, assuming you're currently at something like 50k from CLS and 62.5k from NYU.

[tlsapp2017]

is that 12.5k more overall or per year? Give the total COA for each school.

It's 12.5k more overall. So the COA of NYU is ~12.5k less than the COA for Columbia. Basically, as far as my decision is concerned, I'm treating it as pretty negligible.

[tlsapp2017]

Here are some pros for CLS:

B- grades are not mandated on the curve. The grades are basically B/B+/A-/A
If you go with UAH, you can live within walking distance of CLS for <$1000 a month.
CLS is surrounded by beautiful parks, churches and libraries. It's walking distance from central park.
The three-year big law + fed clerk average is 73%. The EIP success rate has ranged from 85-90% over the last few years.
Both PI/govt and judicial internships are eligible for summer funding
Free lunch pretty much every weekday. That's where I'm headed now.

As for cons, CON law 1L year. Name says it all.

From an 0L perspective, the student demographics are pretty similar.

http://web.law.columbia.edu/admissions/ ... ss-profile
http://www.law.nyu.edu/jdadmissions/app ... assprofile

Thanks! This is helpful.

[jbagelboy]

I'd definitely take CLS at roughly parallel costs like this. That's the choice I made and I don't regret it. But you'll do fine from either school.

[kaiser]

is that 12.5k more overall or per year? Give the total COA for each school.

It's 12.5k more overall. So the COA of NYU is ~12.5k less than the COA for Columbia. Basically, as far as my decision is concerned, I'm treating it as pretty negligible.

Whereas, in the real world, it would be crazy to call 12.5K negligible, I agree that this cost difference shouldn't weigh too much into the decision here. Like I said, pick based on secondary factors. While neighborhood do you like more? Which school did you feel a better connection with where did you like the vibe more? Bottom line is that they are very similar and going to one vs. the other isn't really going to alter your employment outcome.

[EnormousCheese]

They're equally prestigious, and will supply you with basically equivalent outcomes (Columbia a slight edge for Big Law, NYU a slight edge for PI). At similar cost, visit both and determine which you like best. 12.5 is a negligible amount if you end up hating the school you're at.

[smokeylarue]

Here are some pros for CLS:

B- grades are not mandated on the curve. The grades are basically B/B+/A-/A
If you go with UAH, you can live within walking distance of CLS for <$1000 a month.
CLS is surrounded by beautiful parks, churches and libraries. It's walking distance from central park.
The three-year big law + fed clerk average is 73%. The EIP success rate has ranged from 85-90% over the last few years.
Both PI/govt and judicial internships are eligible for summer funding
Free lunch pretty much every weekday. That's where I'm headed now.

As for cons, CON law 1L year. Name says it all.

From an 0L perspective, the student demographics are pretty similar.

http://web.law.columbia.edu/admissions/ ... ss-profile
http://www.law.nyu.edu/jdadmissions/app ... assprofile

Pretty much spot on. Most of the UAH apartments are a smidgen above 1000 now though and they go up a little every year. EIP Success rate is indeed very high, it was 86% for Class of 2015. However it was in the 70's% for Class of 2014 just to be fair, so it's not always 85-90% like he stated. Bottom line is go to CLS: better safety net.

[Wiggly]

...

[NYC-WVU]

If your preference for these schools had anything to do with the fact that they're in NYC, NYU wins that round hands-down. NYU location beats Columbia location by a mile.

[transferror]

If your preference for these schools had anything to do with the fact that they're in NYC, NYU wins that round hands-down. NYU location beats Columbia location by a mile.

Yeah, because location within NYC is a huge determining factor...

[jettison63]

Post removed.

[banjo]

Here are some pros for CLS:

B- grades are not mandated on the curve. The grades are basically B/B+/A-/A
If you go with UAH, you can live within walking distance of CLS for <$1000 a month.
CLS is surrounded by beautiful parks, churches and libraries. It's walking distance from central park.
The three-year big law + fed clerk average is 73%. The EIP success rate has ranged from 85-90% over the last few years.
Both PI/govt and judicial internships are eligible for summer funding
Free lunch pretty much every weekday. That's where I'm headed now.

As for cons, CON law 1L year. Name says it all.

From an 0L perspective, the student demographics are pretty similar.

http://web.law.columbia.edu/admissions/ ... ss-profile
http://www.law.nyu.edu/jdadmissions/app ... assprofile

Pretty much spot on. Most of the UAH apartments are a smidgen above 1000 now though and they go up a little every year. EIP Success rate is indeed very high, it was 86% for Class of 2015. However it was in the 70's% for Class of 2014 just to be fair, so it's not always 85-90% like he stated. Bottom line is go to CLS: better safety net.

Wow, didn't know that. I knew c/o 2012 and c/o 2013 but just guessed for c/o 2014 based on http://web.law.columbia.edu/careers/emp ... nformation

[NYC-WVU]

If your preference for these schools had anything to do with the fact that they're in NYC, NYU wins that round hands-down. NYU location beats Columbia location by a mile.

Yeah, because location within NYC is a huge determining factor...

I'm pretty sure OP is well past the "huge determining factors" since he/she's having trouble deciding between the two.
And at this point, I think it's totally a factor worth considering. NYU will have a higher cost of living but the location is everything you could want if you're interested in being "in the city." Columbia's cost of living is less, but it's at 116th street. If someone's unfamiliar with New York, consider it this way: an NYU student will never find himself near Columbia Law buildings unless he's visiting someone or going to Columbia campus for an event, the opposite is not (or at least should not be) true.

[tlsapp2017]

I'd definitely take CLS at roughly parallel costs like this. That's the choice I made and I don't regret it. But you'll do fine from either school.

Would you mind summarizing why you made the decision you did?

[tlsapp2017]

Here are some pros for CLS:

B- grades are not mandated on the curve. The grades are basically B/B+/A-/A
If you go with UAH, you can live within walking distance of CLS for <$1000 a month.
CLS is surrounded by beautiful parks, churches and libraries. It's walking distance from central park.
The three-year big law + fed clerk average is 73%. The EIP success rate has ranged from 85-90% over the last few years.
Both PI/govt and judicial internships are eligible for summer funding
Free lunch pretty much every weekday. That's where I'm headed now.

As for cons, CON law 1L year. Name says it all.

From an 0L perspective, the student demographics are pretty similar.

http://web.law.columbia.edu/admissions/ ... ss-profile
http://www.law.nyu.edu/jdadmissions/app ... assprofile

Pretty much spot on. Most of the UAH apartments are a smidgen above 1000 now though and they go up a little every year. EIP Success rate is indeed very high, it was 86% for Class of 2015. However it was in the 70's% for Class of 2014 just to be fair, so it's not always 85-90% like he stated. Bottom line is go to CLS: better safety net.

Is the statement that CLS is a "better safety net" a general consensus, particularly for someone who has no idea what type of law they want to practice?

[aboutmydaylight]

Here are some pros for CLS:

B- grades are not mandated on the curve. The grades are basically B/B+/A-/A
If you go with UAH, you can live within walking distance of CLS for <$1000 a month.
CLS is surrounded by beautiful parks, churches and libraries. It's walking distance from central park.
The three-year big law + fed clerk average is 73%. The EIP success rate has ranged from 85-90% over the last few years.
Both PI/govt and judicial internships are eligible for summer funding
Free lunch pretty much every weekday. That's where I'm headed now.

As for cons, CON law 1L year. Name says it all.

From an 0L perspective, the student demographics are pretty similar.

http://web.law.columbia.edu/admissions/ ... ss-profile
http://www.law.nyu.edu/jdadmissions/app ... assprofile

Pretty much spot on. Most of the UAH apartments are a smidgen above 1000 now though and they go up a little every year. EIP Success rate is indeed very high, it was 86% for Class of 2015. However it was in the 70's% for Class of 2014 just to be fair, so it's not always 85-90% like he stated. Bottom line is go to CLS: better safety net.

Is the statement that CLS is a "better safety net" a general consensus, particularly for someone who has no idea what type of law they want to practice?

Its a better "safety net" in that when 80% of your class is getting Big Law + Fed Clerkships, then at the very least 4/5 of the class is getting "desirable" outcomes. This doesn't count desirable PI or academia or something else, so in theory desirable outcomes are higher than this. This is further supported by EIP success rates that are in the same general ballpark (if not higher) which basically means people who want them are getting them (though people with really bad grades will probably self select out of EIP, at least to some extent). This puts you in a very favorable position if you're a median student, and you're not SOL if you're in the bottom quartile.

I don't think it really has anything to do with knowing/not knowing what you want to practice, but rather the fact that you can be a significantly below average student and still do fine.

[Gogeta39]

Go with your heart man. Peer schools are peer.

[OMAR_COMIN_YO]

If your preference for these schools had anything to do with the fact that they're in NYC, NYU wins that round hands-down. NYU location beats Columbia location by a mile.

Yeah, because location within NYC is a huge determining factor...

It definitely is. The COL in Morningside Heights is much cheaper than in the Village. Then again, if you go to NYU, you could easily justify living in Brooklyn and taking the 30 min train commute (depending on how deep you go).

[kaiser]

COL isn't necessarily higher if you go to NYU. That is because there is no requirement that you live in the Village. Lots of people saved by living in either Brooklyn or Jersey City. I myself lived in Jersey City and was able to really minimize my COL.