Need Law School Advice Forum

[yellstone]

The schools you are considering

Creighton and UMKC is who I got accepted to.

The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships.

At most $50,000/year (which would be Creighton)

How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings

Loans

Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)

I have a child in Kansas City so staying in Kansas City, Springfield, Omaha, Wichita or St. Louis or where I can fly to like Chicago or Dallas is ideal.

Your general career goals

Eventually being a judge, professor or a politician. In terms of law. Family Law, Labor and Employment Law, and International Law. Maybe working in the government as a prosecutor or public defender out of school.

Your LSAT/GPA numbers

3.3/149

How many times you have taken the LSAT

Once

Explanation before anonymous internet posters judge who I am

I am 27 years old. I graduated in 2009 but my child was born a few months before I graduated. I dealt with a crazy person as my child's mother. She was demanding, manipulative and obsessive. In the two years we were together, I went from a 3.8 to a 3.3 GPA. Just a devastating time in my life. I dealt with the family law aspect of the legal system and I had a great attorney who was able to get my rights. I was very intrigued about that type of law and that got me initially interested in Family Law. Other things like inevitable globalization of the workforce strikes my interest in International and Labor and Employment law. I tried to see if taking more classes would improve my undergraduate GPA but I was told it wouldn't matter. That was disappointing.

I have student loan debt from my bachelor's degree and the degree I graduated with I wasn't able to obtain employment near my child so I was told by my attorney to stay close because it could work against me in my custody case if I left without obtaining rights. Once the case was settled, I tried to get a job close but to no avail and it's been 5 years since graduation and was told last year by a professor I knew well that it would be tough to get an entry level job being almost a half decade removed from school with no internship experience. The loan amount is hard to pay off and it might look like I would be paying off my bachelors degree debt forever for a long time anyways with little to no future in the degree I got if I didn't get more education.

I tried working in sales and insurance and neither kept me happy nor gainfully employed for long. Just never found the job for me that was fulfilling and paid the bills. I didn't want to work a 1/3 of my life in a job I hated and I am passionate about the law and helping others obtain their rights like I needed so I applied to law school. Yes I know the horror stories and everything about it but I looked at school that were under $20,000/year and under the "Best Value" list so I wouldn't occur as much debt.

I got accepted into UMKC and Creighton. So I know I can go to law school. However I am questioning whether or not to take the offers or wait one year to improve my LSAT now which I got accommodated testing approval for the LSAT which I didn't have the first time. Doing a practice exam with the additional time got me a score of 156 so definitely better but I don't know if I can live one more year like this. And even if I get into "better" schools, will I even get more financial aid that would justify waiting another year and potentially being in my early to mid-30s when I graduate. Not to mention my new wife wants me to take the offer (which I probably will) because she saw how miserable I was working in sales and insurance and it caused problems in our relationship. She knew I liked the law and politics so she told me to apply and look for volunteer opportunities to gain experience (which has been difficult but that's another conversation).

So that's essentially my story. I live in Kansas City. I do want to move out of this Midwest region and eventually move to Texas or South Florida when my child grows up and away. However, I will be beginning my career in the Midwest. I also had an idea of applying as a transfer to better ranked schools if I do well enough in my first year. I know student debt is a big deal but I already debt with not much hope for a career so I need a new path and I won't go into detail about my job search but I will just say it's not been great. I am going to law school at some point, I don't really care about the naysayers that want to bring my dreams down because they don't know me or much of anything but like to destroy other people's dreams because of their own misery. If that's what your goal is to do, just get out of the thread and seriously get a life.

So what's your constructive advice? Take one of the offers and either stay at which school or look to transfer or wait a year, find a temporary job and see if I could improve my LSAT.

[Clearly]

tagging.

Also, for the love of God don't do any of the things you are thinking about other than retake. I'm not talking about "lets hope I can break 150" type of retake either. Seriously buckle down, if you can't do significantly better you have no business even considering this option, I know that sounds harsh, but financially, its true.

[Johann]

Law school debt will not fuck you anymore than you are already fucked. I'd max the loans out and go to the higher ranked one. When you are a 3L, I'd apply to an LLM program if you don't have a job and max those loans as well. You'll never use the law degree in the way you are hoping to, but some free government money for 4 years is probably your best end game right now.

[californiauser]

how much ug debt?

[cron1834]

Flame?

[yellstone]

how much ug debt?

Last time I calculated was about 60K and I went to a state school.

[unodostres]

Please for the love of your child do not go to this festering pile of shit. Do not expect to transfer from this festering pile of shit.

Do go to the LSAT forum on this page and read and read all the guides and potential ways you can handle the LSAT.

[jumpingjack]

The short answer is retake.

The why is here:

"I don't really care about the naysayers that want to bring my dreams down because they don't know me or much of anything but like to destroy other people's dreams because of their own misery. If that's what your goal is to do, just get out of the thread and seriously get a life."

This is the wrong place to post this. You don't realize that the "naysayers" have much greater knowledge and expertise on this issue than you.

And you are wrong in another way. We do know you. We don't know you personally, but we know your type. You're "unhappy" with a career, and your other options aren't so great. You have excuses on why you performed terribly on the most important test that will factor into a potential law school career. You have way too much undergraduate debt, so additional debt for law school doesn't matter. Being an attorney is your "dream." You want to "help people." You are a super hard worker. There are hundreds, if not thousands of people who meet many of these factors that post on this forum every year asking for advice.


Guess what? You're not a 23 year old fresh graduate. You have a wife and child, and you already bring to the table $60,000 in undergraduate debt. It's not about fulfilling your hopes and dreams anymore. You have responsibilities to your family which don't involve wasting three years of your life and accumulating much even more debt. Imagine how much worse your situation would be with $210,000 in high-interest, nondischargeable loans with a degree from a poorly-regarded law school in a state where lawyer salaries are especially low? Frankly you sound like a 21 year old who graduated high school with a lot of AP credits and graduated college in 3 years.

I can tell you without even knowing anything about you that 149 is a terrible score and you shouldn't even bother applying to law school with that number unless you are 1) independently wealthy and 2) will be hired by dad's or mom's friend when you graduate. It's harsh, but it's the truth. Low-ranked, private law schools are a scam, plain and simple.

That being said, the people here, including me, give a lot bigger damn about you than any admissions person who is trying to lure you into Creighton. That look at you and see a mark. A mark that is eligible for unlimited amounts of federal student loans. Their financial livelihood depends on people like you making financially ruinous decisions for yourself. Financial experts recommend taking out no more debt for school than you expect to make in your first year out of school. With your debt load, you would only be able to service it at a reasonable rate if you are making well over six figures of salary. Creighton doesn't even report the salaries of its graduates. I wonder why? Hint: it's not because they are great.

So, retake. If you are considering Creighton, it means you want to work in Nebraska. So get a higher LSAT score, a much higher one, in the 160 range at the very least, and go to the state Nebraska school on a substantial scholarship.

That's the only realistic scenario that I would even consider going to law school in your situation. It's a lot more positive in favor of going to law school than many people on this website will be, but you have your work cut out for you.

I can tell you with certainty that if you attend any law school in the country which costs you $50,000 a year, excluding a few at the very top (and even then it would be a big if with a child, wife, and $60,000 in pre-existing student loans), it would be a terrible situation and you will wish that you had listened to the advice of the "nayseers," who, as I said, give a lot bigger shit about you than any Creighton admissions person.

[yellstone]

The short answer is retake.

The why is here:

"I don't really care about the naysayers that want to bring my dreams down because they don't know me or much of anything but like to destroy other people's dreams because of their own misery. If that's what your goal is to do, just get out of the thread and seriously get a life."

This is the wrong place to post this. You don't realize that the "naysayers" have much greater knowledge and expertise on this issue than you.

And you are wrong in another way. We do know you. We don't know you personally, but we know your type. You're "unhappy" with a career, and your other options aren't so great. You have excuses on why you performed terribly on the most important test that will factor into a potential law school career. You have way too much undergraduate debt, so additional debt for law school doesn't matter. Being an attorney is your "dream." You want to "help people." You are a super hard worker. There are hundreds, if not thousands of people who meet many of these factors that post on this forum every year asking for advice.


Guess what? You're not a 23 year old fresh graduate. You have a wife and child, and you already bring to the table $60,000 in undergraduate debt. It's not about fulfilling your hopes and dreams anymore. You have responsibilities to your family which don't involve wasting three years of your life and accumulating much even more debt. Imagine how much worse your situation would be with $210,000 in high-interest, nondischargeable loans with a degree from a poorly-regarded law school in a state where lawyer salaries are especially low? Frankly you sound like a 21 year old who graduated high school with a lot of AP credits and graduated college in 3 years.

I can tell you without even knowing anything about you that 149 is a terrible score and you shouldn't even bother applying to law school with that number unless you are 1) independently wealthy and 2) will be hired by dad's or mom's friend when you graduate. It's harsh, but it's the truth. Low-ranked, private law schools are a scam, plain and simple.

That being said, the people here, including me, give a lot bigger damn about you than any admissions person who is trying to lure you into Creighton. That look at you and see a mark. A mark that is eligible for unlimited amounts of federal student loans. Their financial livelihood depends on people like you making financially ruinous decisions for yourself. Financial experts recommend taking out no more debt for school than you expect to make in your first year out of school. With your debt load, you would only be able to service it at a reasonable rate if you are making well over six figures of salary. Creighton doesn't even report the salaries of its graduates. I wonder why? Hint: it's not because they are great.

So, retake. If you are considering Creighton, it means you want to work in Nebraska. So get a higher LSAT score, a much higher one, in the 160 range at the very least, and go to the state Nebraska school on a substantial scholarship.

That's the only realistic scenario that I would even consider going to law school in your situation. It's a lot more positive in favor of going to law school than many people on this website will be, but you have your work cut out for you.

I can tell you with certainty that if you attend any law school in the country which costs you $50,000 a year, excluding a few at the very top (and even then it would be a big if with a child, wife, and $60,000 in pre-existing student loans), it would be a terrible situation and you will wish that you had listened to the advice of the "nayseers," who, as I said, give a lot bigger shit about you than any Creighton admissions person.

Okay, that is fair.

I am not mad at you per se and maybe anonymous people do care about me more than a university. Trust me, I do not have great things to say about my alma mater in terms of career resources. I am upset that things haven't worked out for me when I did have lofty goals for myself

I understand that's on me and I was the one that continued an abusive relationship. I decided to stay around for my child and not move to Chicago, DC, Texas or Florida like I wanted to. Not saying that's a bad thing but I knew that leaving was an option albeit one that I probably would have regretted it.

Like I said, doing a retest in October might be the best option. But I am not going to give up because others think well I am already in a shitty situation, I should just stay in that situation because the responsibilities I bear is too much to handle a change. With all due respect, I don't want to live my life with that regret. I have to believe that things will get better and despite the adversity I have faced that I will overcome it. I just have to. I'll find a way to get it done. That's just what has to happen. Yeah I know, hundreds if not thousands of people have came on this board and said that exact line. Whatever.

I will take it under consideration what you said but I would like to practice in Kansas City which UMKC is a state school in Kansas City with great employment numbers in the State of Missouri as well as great bar passage rates. Ultimately, I have to live with the decision and myself.

[The Dark Shepard]

Retake to a 160+ and at MINIMUM aim for a full ride at Mizzou or Kansas if you wish to stay in Kansas City long term.

[Clearly]

The short answer is retake.

The why is here:

"I don't really care about the naysayers that want to bring my dreams down because they don't know me or much of anything but like to destroy other people's dreams because of their own misery. If that's what your goal is to do, just get out of the thread and seriously get a life."

This is the wrong place to post this. You don't realize that the "naysayers" have much greater knowledge and expertise on this issue than you.

And you are wrong in another way. We do know you. We don't know you personally, but we know your type. You're "unhappy" with a career, and your other options aren't so great. You have excuses on why you performed terribly on the most important test that will factor into a potential law school career. You have way too much undergraduate debt, so additional debt for law school doesn't matter. Being an attorney is your "dream." You want to "help people." You are a super hard worker. There are hundreds, if not thousands of people who meet many of these factors that post on this forum every year asking for advice.


Guess what? You're not a 23 year old fresh graduate. You have a wife and child, and you already bring to the table $60,000 in undergraduate debt. It's not about fulfilling your hopes and dreams anymore. You have responsibilities to your family which don't involve wasting three years of your life and accumulating much even more debt. Imagine how much worse your situation would be with $210,000 in high-interest, nondischargeable loans with a degree from a poorly-regarded law school in a state where lawyer salaries are especially low? Frankly you sound like a 21 year old who graduated high school with a lot of AP credits and graduated college in 3 years.

I can tell you without even knowing anything about you that 149 is a terrible score and you shouldn't even bother applying to law school with that number unless you are 1) independently wealthy and 2) will be hired by dad's or mom's friend when you graduate. It's harsh, but it's the truth. Low-ranked, private law schools are a scam, plain and simple.

That being said, the people here, including me, give a lot bigger damn about you than any admissions person who is trying to lure you into Creighton. That look at you and see a mark. A mark that is eligible for unlimited amounts of federal student loans. Their financial livelihood depends on people like you making financially ruinous decisions for yourself. Financial experts recommend taking out no more debt for school than you expect to make in your first year out of school. With your debt load, you would only be able to service it at a reasonable rate if you are making well over six figures of salary. Creighton doesn't even report the salaries of its graduates. I wonder why? Hint: it's not because they are great.

So, retake. If you are considering Creighton, it means you want to work in Nebraska. So get a higher LSAT score, a much higher one, in the 160 range at the very least, and go to the state Nebraska school on a substantial scholarship.

That's the only realistic scenario that I would even consider going to law school in your situation. It's a lot more positive in favor of going to law school than many people on this website will be, but you have your work cut out for you.

I can tell you with certainty that if you attend any law school in the country which costs you $50,000 a year, excluding a few at the very top (and even then it would be a big if with a child, wife, and $60,000 in pre-existing student loans), it would be a terrible situation and you will wish that you had listened to the advice of the "nayseers," who, as I said, give a lot bigger shit about you than any Creighton admissions person.

Okay, that is fair.

I am not mad at you per se and maybe anonymous people do care about me more than a university. Trust me, I do not have great things to say about my alma mater in terms of career resources. I am upset that things haven't worked out for me when I did have lofty goals for myself

I understand that's on me and I was the one that continued an abusive relationship. I decided to stay around for my child and not move to Chicago, DC, Texas or Florida like I wanted to. Not saying that's a bad thing but I knew that leaving was an option albeit one that I probably would have regretted it.

Like I said, doing a retest in October might be the best option. But I am not going to give up because others think well I am already in a shitty situation, I should just stay in that situation because the responsibilities I bear is too much to handle a change. With all due respect, I don't want to live my life with that regret. I have to believe that things will get better and despite the adversity I have faced that I will overcome it. I just have to. I'll find a way to get it done. That's just what has to happen. Yeah I know, hundreds if not thousands of people have came on this board and said that exact line. Whatever.

I will take it under consideration what you said but I would like to practice in Kansas City which UMKC is a state school in Kansas City with great employment numbers in the State of Missouri as well as great bar passage rates. Ultimately, I have to live with the decision and myself.

Just want to point out that your loan payments just for law school will be about $3000 a month for ten years. How can you honestly see this working out from schools that more than half of the students are unemployed, and the other half make 40k a year? Your current situation sucking isn't justification for digging yourself deeper. Stop and think here...