Harvard (sticker) v. NYU (full) v. Michigan (full) for DC Forum

[Unclear3]

I thought I'd make a thread - feeling really indecisive at the moment. My information is below. I know that, for my goals, HLS is definitely best but I am currently leaning NYU and wanted to see if TLS would agree - really dislike the idea of that debt load at H. Fam is just wealthy enough to not qualify for grants but definitely cannot afford to help much with tuition.

Michigan - Biggest pro is lowest debt of the bunch, given low COL and full tuition, and I loved it when I visited, but I'm concerned about its lower rank/prestige/employment stats. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong though.

NYU - Liked the school, and close to family, but of course that crazy COL and its propensity to be extremely NY/Wall St.-centric worries me a bit.

HLS - The king for DC and federal government work, but that ridiculous price tag... And yes, sticker is post-fin aid process.

UChi - Scholly # is pre-negotiation.

Thanks!

-The schools you are considering
HLS (sticker), UChicago ($75k), NYU(Vanderbilt scholarship) and Michigan(full (not Darrow))

COAs:
Harvard: $303,000 (About $285k debt)
NYU: COL only - $83,400 (About $60k debt)
Michigan: COL only - $51,000 (About $30k debt)
Chicago: $160,000 (About $140k debt)

-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
Mostly loans, with a bit of my own savings and parental help with COL (not rent, but books/food/some incidentals). Estimates are reflected above...not entirely sure how much my parents will contribute to COL, but that's my best guess.

-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
I want to work in DC regulatory biglaw or Fedgov policy work in a regulatory agency - potentially back and forth between the two. Probably biglaw postgraduation. Significant ties to DC - currently work as paralegal at DC firm in this area field. Other ties are to New England/Northeast/NY. Note: The managing partner said he "hopes I would consider" coming back post-graduation - I know that's not an offer, but hopefully an open door?

-Clerking - Would love to - esp on DC district - but I know how competitive it is, obviously. My thought is, if after 1L I am miraculously amazing at law school, I'd definitely give it a go. If I'm more average - like most people are - I figure it won't happen, even from H.

-Backup: Biglaw, anywhere, followed by...longterm, fulltime job? Hopefully? Would prefer non-NYC, but not out of any dislike for NY - more out of a fear (backed-up by many folks I work with) that NY biglaw is a different, uniquely soul-sucking animal. Something about the Wall Street culture, I don't know. If I could find a firm I really liked in NY I'd be fine with it.

-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
3.9, 174

-How many times you have taken the LSAT
Twice.

[twenty]

HLS below median is definitely not a guarantee of getting DC. HLS anywhere, though, is a guarantee of bigdebt. NYU for sure.

[phillywc]

I'd absolutely go NYU, without even really thinking about it. I'd take Michigan and Chicago in your situation over HLS as well.

[manu6926]

...

[nebula666]

Did you get a full ride offer to UVA? If so I'd probably take that over anything listed. NYU is the best of the options you provided.

[Unclear3]

Did you get a full ride offer to UVA? If so I'd probably take that over anything listed. NYU is the best of the options you provided.

No, unfortunately - waitlisted/YPed. Clearly they ignored my Why essay and LOCI...

[transferror]

NYU for sure. If you're top of the class w/ a named scholarship, you'd probably have a good shot at DC gov/clerk. If median, biglaw is possible. If you suck at law school, you'll just need a job. Any job, since you'll only have 60k in debt. It would be tough to fuck that up.

[kaiser]

NYU 1000 times over. No debate at all. Lol at even considering the idea of nearly 300K in debt. You want to ruin your financial future completely? In this economic climate, and given the realities of the job market, CCN full ride is almost always the right answer

[3L2014]

NYU is the best answer. But if you really liked Michigan more, then Michigan for 30k overall debt is pretty great, and is understandable over NYU for someone not targeting NY.

[ndirish2010]

I too would choose NYU. I'm sorry that UVA is being ridiculous.

[PrideandGlory1776]

NYU

[nebula666]

Did you get a full ride offer to UVA? If so I'd probably take that over anything listed. NYU is the best of the options you provided.

No, unfortunately - waitlisted/YPed. Clearly they ignored my Why essay and LOCI...

I would try to reach out to them and let them know about your other options. Normally I wouldn't really recommend UVA for free over NYU but since you want DC I think it is a good option.

[jbagelboy]

NYU. Totally justified over any of your other options. If you could get your UChi total debt burden to <$100k I'd probably take that for your goals, but NYU is an excellent option here.

[BlakcMajikc]

HLS depending on your resume.
Feel free to PM me.

[lastsamurai]

NYU seems like a pretty clear cut winner...especially since you're already leaning that way yourself. Check out the LST reports too

http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/harvard/nyu/

[SteelPenguin]

NYU and it's not even close.

[Florence Night]

NYU is the way to go unless you would prefer not to live in NYC for three years (because of COL or some other reason) like a lot of people. Michigan with ~30k of debt is a fantastic option.

[kaiser]

NYU is the way to go unless you would prefer not to live in NYC for three years (because of COL or some other reason) like a lot of people. Michigan with ~30k of debt is a fantastic option.

Yeah I was going to add that caveat. If you live and die Michigan, and never want to be anyplace else, then pick MI. Otherwise, NYU is easy choice. Not sure how any other choice would be justified. HLS at sticker makes no sense at all compared to a CCN full ride except in VERY narrow circumstances. Go out and try and find an actual grad who would say its worth you taking on 220K (!!!) extra debt given your goals and situation. I'll bet you 220K you won't find one.

[Unclear3]

NYU is the way to go unless you would prefer not to live in NYC for three years (because of COL or some other reason) like a lot of people. Michigan with ~30k of debt is a fantastic option.

Yeah I was going to add that caveat. If you live and die Michigan, and never want to be anyplace else, then pick MI. Otherwise, NYU is easy choice. Not sure how any other choice would be justified. HLS at sticker makes no sense at all compared to a CCN full ride except in VERY narrow circumstances. Go out and try and find an actual grad who would say its worth you taking on 220K (!!!) extra debt given your goals and situation. I'll bet you 220K you won't find one.

1. Yeah, gonna take the $$$. I did talk to a couple of recent HLS grads I work with and 2/3 suggested I take the money (well, people hate telling you what to do but I got a "I would very, very seriously consider taking the $$$" response). The other guy did suggest HLS when I told him my goals, but he graduated a little pre-crash (2008) and I noticed (http://www.provost.harvard.edu/institut ... ncials.pdf) that he probably paid at least $50k less in tuition over 3 years than I would have to.

HLS also set me up w/ a guy who of course suggested HLS, but he also worked at MBB pre-law school and went to an exclusive HS (so, something tells me he did not take on full loans...)

2. I know this is debated ad nauseum, but is there any prestige/reputational difference between NYU and Mich? I would probably take Michigan all things equal because I do like the college town and the idea of having my own place to live (will never happen in NY), but it definitely has worse stats - http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/ ... n/harvard/ - and is ranked lower in basically every metric (USN, ATL, NLJ 250, etc.). Feel like I'd rather be median at NYU than Michigan.

[jbagelboy]

NYU is the way to go unless you would prefer not to live in NYC for three years (because of COL or some other reason) like a lot of people. Michigan with ~30k of debt is a fantastic option.

Yeah I was going to add that caveat. If you live and die Michigan, and never want to be anyplace else, then pick MI. Otherwise, NYU is easy choice. Not sure how any other choice would be justified. HLS at sticker makes no sense at all compared to a CCN full ride except in VERY narrow circumstances. Go out and try and find an actual grad who would say its worth you taking on 220K (!!!) extra debt given your goals and situation. I'll bet you 220K you won't find one.

1. Yeah, gonna take the $$$. I did talk to a couple of recent HLS grads I work with and 2/3 suggested I take the money (well, people hate telling you what to do but I got a "I would very, very seriously consider taking the $$$" response). The other guy did suggest HLS when I told him my goals, but he graduated a little pre-crash (2008) and I noticed (http://www.provost.harvard.edu/institut ... ncials.pdf) that he probably paid at least $50k less in tuition over 3 years than I would have to.

HLS also set me up w/ a guy who of course suggested HLS, but he also worked at MBB pre-law school and went to an exclusive HS (so, something tells me he did not take on full loans...)

2. I know this is debated ad nauseum, but is there any prestige/reputational difference between NYU and Mich? I would probably take Michigan all things equal because I do like the college town and the idea of having my own place to live (will never happen in NY), but it definitely has worse stats - http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/ ... n/harvard/ - and is ranked lower in basically every metric (USN, ATL, NLJ 250, etc.). Feel like I'd rather be median at NYU than Michigan.

Definitely NYU over Michigan.

[kaiser]

NYU is the way to go unless you would prefer not to live in NYC for three years (because of COL or some other reason) like a lot of people. Michigan with ~30k of debt is a fantastic option.

Yeah I was going to add that caveat. If you live and die Michigan, and never want to be anyplace else, then pick MI. Otherwise, NYU is easy choice. Not sure how any other choice would be justified. HLS at sticker makes no sense at all compared to a CCN full ride except in VERY narrow circumstances. Go out and try and find an actual grad who would say its worth you taking on 220K (!!!) extra debt given your goals and situation. I'll bet you 220K you won't find one.

1. Yeah, gonna take the $$$. I did talk to a couple of recent HLS grads I work with and 2/3 suggested I take the money (well, people hate telling you what to do but I got a "I would very, very seriously consider taking the $$$" response). The other guy did suggest HLS when I told him my goals, but he graduated a little pre-crash (2008) and I noticed (http://www.provost.harvard.edu/institut ... ncials.pdf) that he probably paid at least $50k less in tuition over 3 years than I would have to.

HLS also set me up w/ a guy who of course suggested HLS, but he also worked at MBB pre-law school and went to an exclusive HS (so, something tells me he did not take on full loans...)

2. I know this is debated ad nauseum, but is there any prestige/reputational difference between NYU and Mich? I would probably take Michigan all things equal because I do like the college town and the idea of having my own place to live (will never happen in NY), but it definitely has worse stats - http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/ ... n/harvard/ - and is ranked lower in basically every metric (USN, ATL, NLJ 250, etc.). Feel like I'd rather be median at NYU than Michigan.

Yeah, NYU places objectively better in pretty much every way. There are perks to being one of the big fish in the biggest legal market in the world. Makes it so all the best firms have tight relationships with the school, and constant contact. Its reputation amongst the best firms is very good, and you have tons of NYU grads at all the very best places. So yes, there is a prestige/reputational difference between the schools to a certain extent.

[Florence Night]

NYU is the way to go unless you would prefer not to live in NYC for three years (because of COL or some other reason) like a lot of people. Michigan with ~30k of debt is a fantastic option.

Yeah I was going to add that caveat. If you live and die Michigan, and never want to be anyplace else, then pick MI. Otherwise, NYU is easy choice. Not sure how any other choice would be justified. HLS at sticker makes no sense at all compared to a CCN full ride except in VERY narrow circumstances. Go out and try and find an actual grad who would say its worth you taking on 220K (!!!) extra debt given your goals and situation. I'll bet you 220K you won't find one.

1. Yeah, gonna take the $$$. I did talk to a couple of recent HLS grads I work with and 2/3 suggested I take the money (well, people hate telling you what to do but I got a "I would very, very seriously consider taking the $$$" response). The other guy did suggest HLS when I told him my goals, but he graduated a little pre-crash (2008) and I noticed (http://www.provost.harvard.edu/institut ... ncials.pdf) that he probably paid at least $50k less in tuition over 3 years than I would have to.

HLS also set me up w/ a guy who of course suggested HLS, but he also worked at MBB pre-law school and went to an exclusive HS (so, something tells me he did not take on full loans...)

2. I know this is debated ad nauseum, but is there any prestige/reputational difference between NYU and Mich? I would probably take Michigan all things equal because I do like the college town and the idea of having my own place to live (will never happen in NY), but it definitely has worse stats - http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/ ... n/harvard/ - and is ranked lower in basically every metric (USN, ATL, NLJ 250, etc.). Feel like I'd rather be median at NYU than Michigan.

Yeah, NYU places objectively better in pretty much every way. There are perks to being one of the big fish in the biggest legal market in the world. Makes it so all the best firms have tight relationships with the school, and constant contact. Its reputation amongst the best firms is very good, and you have tons of NYU grads at all the very best places. So yes, there is a prestige/reputational difference between the schools to a certain extent.

In NYC, sure. But is this so true in other markets? NYU is incredibly NYC-focused. No T-14 is so exclusively focused on one market.... 2/3 of graduates stay in the city. OP has expressed an interest in DC, and Michigan places a higher proportion of people there. I get that this is due in part to self selection. My only point is that when you start talking about markets outside of NYC, I'm not sure that NYU is going to be so much better than Michigan that a preference for living in a college town and saving money due to COL can't outweigh it.

[Nelson]

In NYC, sure. But is this so true in other markets? NYU is incredibly NYC-focused. I don't think there is another T-14 so exclusively focused on one market....around 2/3 of graduates stay in the city based on a quick glance at some data. OP has expressed an interest in DC, and Michigan places a higher proportion of people there. I get that this is due in part to self selection. My only point is that when you start talking about markets outside of NYC, I'm not sure that NYU is going to be so much better than Michigan that a preference for living in a college town and saving money due to COL can't outweigh it.

You can't make law school decisions based on DC since it's such a hard market to crack from anywhere. At equal cost, no reason not to take NYU's bigger NYC safety net.

[Florence Night]

In NYC, sure. But is this so true in other markets? NYU is incredibly NYC-focused. I don't think there is another T-14 so exclusively focused on one market....around 2/3 of graduates stay in the city based on a quick glance at some data. OP has expressed an interest in DC, and Michigan places a higher proportion of people there. I get that this is due in part to self selection. My only point is that when you start talking about markets outside of NYC, I'm not sure that NYU is going to be so much better than Michigan that a preference for living in a college town and saving money due to COL can't outweigh it.

You can't make law school decisions based on DC since it's such a hard market to crack from anywhere. At equal cost, no reason not to take NYU's bigger NYC safety net.

Yeah, I suppose you're probably right.