Ole Miss vs. Cumberland vs. LSU vs. Texas Tech Forum

[texasbama]

Well, the schools I have been accepted to are Ole Miss, Cumberland (Samford), LSU, and Texas Tech. I am on a wait list of sorts at Alabama. I won't know until august.
I have narrowed my decision down to Ole Miss and Cumberland.
The cost of tuition at Ole Miss is roughly $7500, and will hopefully drop to $5,000 by Monday. The cost of tuition at Cumberland is roughly $9050.
I am married, with one child and another en route.
I have saved up enough money to pay for school out of pocket. I will not be taking out loans. I plan to use our savings for living expenses as well.
I am from Alabama, but I have legal connections in Mississippi and Texas. I will be happy working in any of those states, but I would like to limit my considerations to Mississippi and Alabama.
Strong points at play:
My uncle is a partner at a big firm in Birmingham, and he is a Cumberland graduate. He is very much pushing me to attend there. He has implied that he will be able to help me find a good job at a large firm in Birmingham, given I hold up my end by performing well.
I just returned from visiting Ole Miss for their ASW. I fell in love with Oxford, and their new building is absolutely spectacular. The city is very family friendly, and the cost of living is lower than Birmingham. I have a few connections there, but we would be more "on our own."
I realize that I will have to be in the top 15-10% of my class at each of these schools to get the job I want. I want to work for a firm like Balch and Bingham, Burr and Forman, etc. Preferably on the Gulf Coast.
I have significant ties in Mississippi; a few friend's grandfathers are judges. There is a judge in my family in Texas as well. My uncle is extremely well connected in Birmingham, but that is my only connection.
If I go to Ole Miss, and perform well, how hard will it be to work back to Alabama?
What seems most logical to everyone here? Thanks in advance for the help. My deadline is on Tuesday.

[shifty_eyed]

Why isn't Bama an option?

[texasbama]

Because I am PFCD, its a sort of wait list. I won't know until August if I am accepted.

[isuperserial]

Well, the schools I have been accepted to are Ole Miss, Cumberland (Samford), LSU, and Texas Tech. I am on a wait list of sorts at Alabama. I won't know until august.
I have narrowed my decision down to Ole Miss and Cumberland.
The cost of tuition at Ole Miss is roughly $7500, and will hopefully drop to $5,000 by Monday. The cost of tuition at Cumberland is roughly $9050.
I am married, with one child and another en route.
I have saved up enough money to pay for school out of pocket. I will not be taking out loans. I plan to use our savings for living expenses as well.
I am from Alabama, but I have legal connections in Mississippi and Texas. I will be happy working in any of those states, but I would like to limit my considerations to Mississippi and Alabama.
Strong points at play:
My uncle is a partner at a big firm in Birmingham, and he is a Cumberland graduate. He is very much pushing me to attend there. He has implied that he will be able to help me find a good job at a large firm in Birmingham, given I hold up my end by performing well.
I just returned from visiting Ole Miss for their ASW. I fell in love with Oxford, and their new building is absolutely spectacular. The city is very family friendly, and the cost of living is lower than Birmingham. I have a few connections there, but we would be more "on our own."
I realize that I will have to be in the top 15-10% of my class at each of these schools to get the job I want. I want to work for a firm like Balch and Bingham, Burr and Forman, etc. Preferably on the Gulf Coast.
I have significant ties in Mississippi; a few friend's grandfathers are judges. There is a judge in my family in Texas as well. My uncle is extremely well connected in Birmingham, but that is my only connection.
If I go to Ole Miss, and perform well, how hard will it be to work back to Alabama?
What seems most logical to everyone here? Thanks in advance for the help. My deadline is on Tuesday.

You've answered some of the questions we need to offer credible advice, but you've left some out. The mods helpfully have a post in which they detail all that you need to include. This includes:


In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

All that information would be extremely helpful. As for what you've posted so far, I'm curious as to whether the tuition you've posted is tuition overall, or tuition per year. Are these scholarships conditional on class GPA or rank?

Also, you should have a serious sit down with your uncle and see what he expects you to do for him to get you a job. You want to know exactly what the situation is before you make a decision as to where you will attend, not after.

Finally, short of your uncle promising you a job at a biglaw firm, you should disabuse yourself of the idea that you'll get a job like that from these schools. It simply won't likely happen and you should only go to a school where you are perfectly content ending up at the median.

[texasbama]

Well, the schools I have been accepted to are Ole Miss, Cumberland (Samford), LSU, and Texas Tech. I am on a wait list of sorts at Alabama. I won't know until august.
I have narrowed my decision down to Ole Miss and Cumberland.
The cost of tuition at Ole Miss is roughly $7500, and will hopefully drop to $5,000 by Monday. The cost of tuition at Cumberland is roughly $9050.
I am married, with one child and another en route.
I have saved up enough money to pay for school out of pocket. I will not be taking out loans. I plan to use our savings for living expenses as well.
I am from Alabama, but I have legal connections in Mississippi and Texas. I will be happy working in any of those states, but I would like to limit my considerations to Mississippi and Alabama.
Strong points at play:
My uncle is a partner at a big firm in Birmingham, and he is a Cumberland graduate. He is very much pushing me to attend there. He has implied that he will be able to help me find a good job at a large firm in Birmingham, given I hold up my end by performing well.
I just returned from visiting Ole Miss for their ASW. I fell in love with Oxford, and their new building is absolutely spectacular. The city is very family friendly, and the cost of living is lower than Birmingham. I have a few connections there, but we would be more "on our own."
I realize that I will have to be in the top 15-10% of my class at each of these schools to get the job I want. I want to work for a firm like Balch and Bingham, Burr and Forman, etc. Preferably on the Gulf Coast.
I have significant ties in Mississippi; a few friend's grandfathers are judges. There is a judge in my family in Texas as well. My uncle is extremely well connected in Birmingham, but that is my only connection.
If I go to Ole Miss, and perform well, how hard will it be to work back to Alabama?
What seems most logical to everyone here? Thanks in advance for the help. My deadline is on Tuesday.

You've answered some of the questions we need to offer credible advice, but you've left some out. The mods helpfully have a post in which they detail all that you need to include. This includes:


In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

All that information would be extremely helpful. As for what you've posted so far, I'm curious as to whether the tuition you've posted is tuition overall, or tuition per year. Are these scholarships conditional on class GPA or rank?

Also, you should have a serious sit down with your uncle and see what he expects you to do for him to get you a job. You want to know exactly what the situation is before you make a decision as to where you will attend, not after.

Finally, short of your uncle promising you a job at a biglaw firm, you should disabuse yourself of the idea that you'll get a job like that from these schools. It simply won't likely happen and you should only go to a school where you are perfectly content ending up at the median.

Sorry for leaving out some information. The numbers I posted are costs per year. Cumberland's scholarship requires that I remain in the top 2/3rds of my class, and Ole Miss comes with absolutely no stipulations.
My LSAC GPA is 2.4. I took the LSAT once: 156.
My GPA is a bit of a paradox. I am graduating my institution with a 3.7, Magna Cum Laude. The struggle was part of my PS. I realize that short of my uncle helping find me a job, that it is extremely unlikely that I will be able to attain such. I am very determined to make law review, and remain in the top of my class. I am sure many people say this, but I am confident in my capabilities.

[thebobs1987]

I would sign up for the LSAT in June at the very least. Get into the 160s and you'll be getting much more scholarship money from these schools and Alabama. Short of that as was mentioned discuss with your uncle what he can really do for you. If he can't guarantee you anything, go with Ole Miss since it is cheaper and you seem to enjoy the campus

[BigZuck]

Committing yourself to work hard is all good but don't assume you're going to make law review. That's silly, and you have no basis to think that.

Also, I'm not sure that law review will mean a whole lot at a school like Cumberland.

I don't think I would go to any of these at the prices I assume you would have to pay. Gotta think of your family first

[Louis1127]

.

[isuperserial]

Well, the schools I have been accepted to are Ole Miss, Cumberland (Samford), LSU, and Texas Tech. I am on a wait list of sorts at Alabama. I won't know until august.
I have narrowed my decision down to Ole Miss and Cumberland.
The cost of tuition at Ole Miss is roughly $7500, and will hopefully drop to $5,000 by Monday. The cost of tuition at Cumberland is roughly $9050.
I am married, with one child and another en route.
I have saved up enough money to pay for school out of pocket. I will not be taking out loans. I plan to use our savings for living expenses as well.
I am from Alabama, but I have legal connections in Mississippi and Texas. I will be happy working in any of those states, but I would like to limit my considerations to Mississippi and Alabama.
Strong points at play:
My uncle is a partner at a big firm in Birmingham, and he is a Cumberland graduate. He is very much pushing me to attend there. He has implied that he will be able to help me find a good job at a large firm in Birmingham, given I hold up my end by performing well.
I just returned from visiting Ole Miss for their ASW. I fell in love with Oxford, and their new building is absolutely spectacular. The city is very family friendly, and the cost of living is lower than Birmingham. I have a few connections there, but we would be more "on our own."
I realize that I will have to be in the top 15-10% of my class at each of these schools to get the job I want. I want to work for a firm like Balch and Bingham, Burr and Forman, etc. Preferably on the Gulf Coast.
I have significant ties in Mississippi; a few friend's grandfathers are judges. There is a judge in my family in Texas as well. My uncle is extremely well connected in Birmingham, but that is my only connection.
If I go to Ole Miss, and perform well, how hard will it be to work back to Alabama?
What seems most logical to everyone here? Thanks in advance for the help. My deadline is on Tuesday.

You've answered some of the questions we need to offer credible advice, but you've left some out. The mods helpfully have a post in which they detail all that you need to include. This includes:


In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

All that information would be extremely helpful. As for what you've posted so far, I'm curious as to whether the tuition you've posted is tuition overall, or tuition per year. Are these scholarships conditional on class GPA or rank?

Also, you should have a serious sit down with your uncle and see what he expects you to do for him to get you a job. You want to know exactly what the situation is before you make a decision as to where you will attend, not after.

Finally, short of your uncle promising you a job at a biglaw firm, you should disabuse yourself of the idea that you'll get a job like that from these schools. It simply won't likely happen and you should only go to a school where you are perfectly content ending up at the median.

Sorry for leaving out some information. The numbers I posted are costs per year. Cumberland's scholarship requires that I remain in the top 2/3rds of my class, and Ole Miss comes with absolutely no stipulations.
My LSAC GPA is 2.4. I took the LSAT once: 156.
My GPA is a bit of a paradox. I am graduating my institution with a 3.7, Magna Cum Laude. The struggle was part of my PS. I realize that short of my uncle helping find me a job, that it is extremely unlikely that I will be able to attain such. I am very determined to make law review, and remain in the top of my class. I am sure many people say this, but I am confident in my capabilities.

Okay, then if you have to go to law school, then I'd choose Ole Miss. Furthermore, please understand that literally nobody goes to law school thinking "I'm going to be below the median" and half of them are wrong.

[texasbama]

Committing yourself to work hard is all good but don't assume you're going to make law review. That's silly, and you have no basis to think that.

Also, I'm not sure that law review will mean a whole lot at a school like Cumberland.

I don't think I would go to any of these at the prices I assume you would have to pay. Gotta think of your family first

I realize I have no basis to say "I'll make law review." I am not some ignorant lurker. What I meant stress was that I am determined to give law school everything I can, with the hope that law review will be the result.

[El Principe]

Unless you really really really want to be a lawyer, you can probably make the same/more money than you would as a lawyer with that uGPA (especially after debt is factored in).

I mean, I got a pretty good job despite having a degree in "Basketweaving for Dummies" with the same GPA with a little bit of help from connections... If I were you, I'd take that route, at least temporarily, and re-evaluate your position later if you really still want to go and think re-taking would be a good idea.

[SLS_AMG]

Committing yourself to work hard is all good but don't assume you're going to make law review. That's silly, and you have no basis to think that.

Also, I'm not sure that law review will mean a whole lot at a school like Cumberland.

I don't think I would go to any of these at the prices I assume you would have to pay. Gotta think of your family first

I realize I have no basis to say "I'll make law review." I am not some ignorant lurker. What I meant stress was that I am determined to give law school everything I can, with the hope that law review will be the result.

You need to sit down with your uncle and figure what he actually means. His "implication" that he will "help you" find a "good job" subject to your "performing well" is kind of like an illusory promise and basically means nothing. Looking at the score reports someone else posted, only 5% of Samford grads ended up in "large firms." So your attempt at being top 10-15% may not even be enough even if it IS fulfilled.

As other posters have mentioned, if you go at all, you need to go somewhere where you will be comfortable ending up at median. If only 56% of Cumberland grads had legal jobs at all, can you really say that Cumberland fits that criteria?

[thevuch]

retake. goto any of these schools for free or almost free.

youve got to retake

the only one of these that isnt a TTT is LSU or bama

bama is good but the PFCD isnt a waitlist, you still could be denied

you have got to RETAKE you are costing yourself so many potential opportunities by not doing so

[suppers]

SPAM

[Nucky]

I'd like to know more about your LSU situation and why you ruled them out. Because out of the four you mentioned they are head and shoulders above the rest.

LSU is portable in the gulf states with ties/connections.

[TheSpanishMain]

I don't doubt you're sincere in your determination to work hard and make law review, but your future classmates are all planning to work just as hard. Very few people go to law school thinking, "Yeah, I'll just sort of sleepwalk through it and see what happens."

Most of your classmates at these schools will have an LSAT comparable to yours, within a few points either way. I don't know know why you're assuming you're naturally that much smarter/harder working than they are.

I'd also suggest you clarify with your uncle what exactly he's saying. If he's saying, "I will definitely hook you up with a job", then fine. If he's saying, "Oh, I'll put you in touch with a few people I know" then that's far from something you should bet on.

Basically, retake the LSAT.

[deadpanic]

I'd like to know more about your LSU situation and why you ruled them out. Because out of the four you mentioned they are head and shoulders above the rest.

LSU is portable in the gulf states with ties/connections.

As a 0L who has no idea what the hell you are talking about, you should stop giving out bad advice just because you have some affinity for LSU. LSU is a regional school like all of the above and you should not attend unless you want to work in Louisiana and have connections there. Of course it's possible to work in another state from any of these schools, but it's not very likely.

If you are from AL and want to work in AL, retake for Bama. Cumberland for free is not terrible but your chances of big law are virtually non-existent.

[Nucky]

I'd like to know more about your LSU situation and why you ruled them out. Because out of the four you mentioned they are head and shoulders above the rest.

LSU is portable in the gulf states with ties/connections.

As a 0L who has no idea what the hell you are talking about, you should stop giving out bad advice just because you have some affinity for LSU. LSU is a regional school like all of the above and you should not attend unless you want to work in Louisiana and have connections there. Of course it's possible to work in another state from any of these schools, but it's not very likely.

If you are from AL and want to work in AL, retake for Bama. Cumberland for free is not terrible but your chances of big law are virtually non-existent.

I have no "affinity for LSU." But boy, I sure wish I was a Nashville attorney so I could interpret LST as well as you! I didn't know that, "gulf state legal markets," was a law school course.

LSU is the best school among the four, cost being equal. That's all I'm saying. Doesn't take a JD to figure that out. But for good measure, I have a wide legal network in the gulf and with ties/connections, as I said earlier, plus good grades, LSU can put you in a decent spot.

Cumberland? GTFOH. You're the one giving bad advice. I'm just trying to determine OPs COA for LSU. That's it. So please take a Xanax or three deep breaths before spewing your biased nonsense and slamming people like me who are legitimately trying to help.

Retake is likely TCR, but to push Cunberland over LSU is absurd, cost being equal.

[cron1834]

What's a Cumberland, and does it have an LSAT median above 148?

[BigZuck]

I'd like to know more about your LSU situation and why you ruled them out. Because out of the four you mentioned they are head and shoulders above the rest.

LSU is portable in the gulf states with ties/connections.

As a 0L who has no idea what the hell you are talking about, you should stop giving out bad advice just because you have some affinity for LSU. LSU is a regional school like all of the above and you should not attend unless you want to work in Louisiana and have connections there. Of course it's possible to work in another state from any of these schools, but it's not very likely.

If you are from AL and want to work in AL, retake for Bama. Cumberland for free is not terrible but your chances of big law are virtually non-existent.

I have no "affinity for LSU." But boy, I sure wish I was a Nashville attorney so I could interpret LST as well as you! I didn't know that, "gulf state legal markets," was a law school course.

LSU is the best school among the four, cost being equal. That's all I'm saying. Doesn't take a JD to figure that out. But for good measure, I have a wide legal network in the gulf and with ties/connections, as I said earlier, plus good grades, LSU can put you in a decent spot.

Cumberland? GTFOH. You're the one giving bad advice. I'm just trying to determine OPs COA for LSU. That's it. So please take a Xanax or three deep breaths before spewing your biased nonsense and slamming people like me who are legitimately trying to help.

Retake is likely TCR, but to push Cunberland over LSU is absurd, cost being equal.

How does LST quantify LSU's reach into the Gulf states?

[CoffeeIsLife]

I'd like to know more about your LSU situation and why you ruled them out. Because out of the four you mentioned they are head and shoulders above the rest.

LSU is portable in the gulf states with ties/connections.

As a 0L who has no idea what the hell you are talking about, you should stop giving out bad advice just because you have some affinity for LSU. LSU is a regional school like all of the above and you should not attend unless you want to work in Louisiana and have connections there. Of course it's possible to work in another state from any of these schools, but it's not very likely.

If you are from AL and want to work in AL, retake for Bama. Cumberland for free is not terrible but your chances of big law are virtually non-existent.

I have no "affinity for LSU." But boy, I sure wish I was a Nashville attorney so I could interpret LST as well as you! I didn't know that, "gulf state legal markets," was a law school course.

LSU is the best school among the four, cost being equal. That's all I'm saying. Doesn't take a JD to figure that out. But for good measure, I have a wide legal network in the gulf and with ties/connections, as I said earlier, plus good grades, LSU can put you in a decent spot.

Cumberland? GTFOH. You're the one giving bad advice. I'm just trying to determine OPs COA for LSU. That's it. So please take a Xanax or three deep breaths before spewing your biased nonsense and slamming people like me who are legitimately trying to help.

Retake is likely TCR, but to push Cunberland over LSU is absurd, cost being equal.

How does LST quantify LSU's reach into the Gulf states?

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... tion/2013/ it doesn't really. I would assume anything other than Louisiana is based on ties, which would make more sense to go to a school in the state you want to work out of these schools, and for the OP it seems like they should retake for Alabama.

[deadpanic]

I'd like to know more about your LSU situation and why you ruled them out. Because out of the four you mentioned they are head and shoulders above the rest.

LSU is portable in the gulf states with ties/connections.

As a 0L who has no idea what the hell you are talking about, you should stop giving out bad advice just because you have some affinity for LSU. LSU is a regional school like all of the above and you should not attend unless you want to work in Louisiana and have connections there. Of course it's possible to work in another state from any of these schools, but it's not very likely.

If you are from AL and want to work in AL, retake for Bama. Cumberland for free is not terrible but your chances of big law are virtually non-existent.

I have no "affinity for LSU." But boy, I sure wish I was a Nashville attorney so I could interpret LST as well as you! I didn't know that, "gulf state legal markets," was a law school course.

LSU is the best school among the four, cost being equal. That's all I'm saying. Doesn't take a JD to figure that out. But for good measure, I have a wide legal network in the gulf and with ties/connections, as I said earlier, plus good grades, LSU can put you in a decent spot.

Cumberland? GTFOH. You're the one giving bad advice. I'm just trying to determine OPs COA for LSU. That's it. So please take a Xanax or three deep breaths before spewing your biased nonsense and slamming people like me who are legitimately trying to help.

Retake is likely TCR, but to push Cunberland over LSU is absurd, cost being equal.

Do you practice law in this area of the country with alums of these law schools? No? So sit down and listen to people that do. You are still a 0L that knows nothing when it comes to getting a legal job.

I'm not pushing for Cumberland over LSU. You misread the post. These are all regional schools and should only be attended if you are from that region & want to work in that region. But if the costs were equal and the poster was from Alabama and wanted to work in Alabama, I would tell him to go to Cumberland over LSU (or sit out a year actually). If he has no ties to Louisiana, and has no desire to practice there, which it sounds like he doesn't, I probably wouldn't recommend going there. You would have to get top top grades from LSU for a really good firm job--just as you would from any of the others. It may be top 10% at LSU vs. top 5% at Cumberland--the difference is negligible.

Retake is TCR as I wouldn't advocate going to any of these schools. I'm not pushing for one either way. LST is not great for ANY of them--LSU is not an obvious choice here when the OP is from Bama and wants to work in B'ham where there are virtually no LSU Law alums.

[deadpanic]

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... tion/2013/ it doesn't really. I would assume anything other than Louisiana is based on ties, which would make more sense to go to a school in the state you want to work out of these schools, and for the OP it seems like they should retake for Alabama.

Exactly.

[Nucky]

I'd like to know more about your LSU situation and why you ruled them out. Because out of the four you mentioned they are head and shoulders above the rest.

LSU is portable in the gulf states with ties/connections.

As a 0L who has no idea what the hell you are talking about, you should stop giving out bad advice just because you have some affinity for LSU. LSU is a regional school like all of the above and you should not attend unless you want to work in Louisiana and have connections there. Of course it's possible to work in another state from any of these schools, but it's not very likely.

If you are from AL and want to work in AL, retake for Bama. Cumberland for free is not terrible but your chances of big law are virtually non-existent.

I have no "affinity for LSU." But boy, I sure wish I was a Nashville attorney so I could interpret LST as well as you! I didn't know that, "gulf state legal markets," was a law school course.

LSU is the best school among the four, cost being equal. That's all I'm saying. Doesn't take a JD to figure that out. But for good measure, I have a wide legal network in the gulf and with ties/connections, as I said earlier, plus good grades, LSU can put you in a decent spot.

Cumberland? GTFOH. You're the one giving bad advice. I'm just trying to determine OPs COA for LSU. That's it. So please take a Xanax or three deep breaths before spewing your biased nonsense and slamming people like me who are legitimately trying to help.

Retake is likely TCR, but to push Cunberland over LSU is absurd, cost being equal.

Do you practice law in this area of the country with alums of these law schools? No? So sit down and listen to people that do. You are still a 0L that knows nothing when it comes to getting a legal job.

I'm not pushing for Cumberland over LSU. You misread the post. These are all regional schools and should only be attended if you are from that region & want to work in that region. But if the costs were equal and the poster was from Alabama and wanted to work in Alabama, I would tell him to go to Cumberland over LSU (or sit out a year actually). If he has no ties to Louisiana, and has no desire to practice there, which it sounds like he doesn't, I probably wouldn't recommend going there. You would have to get top top grades from LSU for a really good firm job--just as you would from any of the others. It may be top 10% at LSU vs. top 5% at Cumberland--the difference is negligible.

Retake is TCR as I wouldn't advocate going to any of these schools. I'm not pushing for one either way. LST is not great for ANY of them--LSU is not an obvious choice here when the OP is from Bama and wants to work in B'ham where there are virtually no LSU Law alums.

Alright, I mostly agree with this, but no reason to be a prick about it. Yes, I'm an 0L, but that doesn't mean I'm completely clueless.

Just pointing out that out of the four it is the best school, and likely the most portable. Of course, given the schools listed, that isn't saying much. If OP wants Alabama then retaking for Bama is TCR, without a doubt.

[deadpanic]

What can I say, law school makes you real cynical Nucky. You'll be the same in a few years as well, I have no doubt. Carry on, man.

OP--bottom line is big firm in B'ham=retake for Vandy w/$ or at the very least you must go to Bama.