Cornell vs. Vandy vs. UT vs. USC vs. Wash U Forum

[mvenus]

Really need some help. First time posting here.

COA (w/o loan interest, including scholarships):

Cornell approx. $157,000
UT approx. $122,000
Vandy approx. $117,000
USC approx. $81,000
Wash U approx. $54,000

Financing:

Will be largely doing so through loans. Have some personal savings/education investment funds/job this summer that'll help, but it'll only cover at most $15-$20k.

I'm from New York, and go to school in upstate NY (actually an hour south of Cornell, so I'm familiar with Ithaca). I'd like to move down south and ditch the winters up here, but I'm very flexible with my options. Have really enjoyed Texas and California from the times I've visited and like the culture in both places. Would be perfectly ok with working and living in either.

Going to visit Vandy Friday and looking forward to exploring Nashville. From what I've heard, I'd enjoy living and working in the Nashville area as well.

St. Louis itself seemed a bit sketchy to me when I visited, but would be open to the possibility as well.

Looking to practice Big Law right out of school, but also interested in possibly pursuing politics/public interest somewhere down the line. I've done research on employment opportunities, but would really like some input from everyone here.

Besides voting, I'd really appreciate some posts too. Thanks guys.

[McAvoy]

Cornell sounds really attractive here. That's alotta debt, but it's probably a surefire investment in your situation.

[Fiero85]

Have you tried negotiating? Some of these are peers with big offer gaps. IMO Cornell ain't 103k better than Wash U for all applicants (and Vandy/UT probably aren't worth 60-70k more for most people either). Depends on your goals. Might as well ask Cornell for a further discount in light of your other offers!

Cornell would be best if you want Big Law above all, are targetting NYC, or have no specific location preference.

The other ones are location specific:

CA? USC
TX? UT
South Eastern US? Vandy
Midwest? Wash U (due to the price difference more than placement really)

[bk1]

That's alotta debt, but it's probably a surefire investment in your situation.

[mvenus]

Have you tried negotiating? Some of these are peers with big offer gaps. IMO Cornell ain't 103k better than Wash U for all applicants (and Vandy/UT probably aren't worth 60-70k more for most people either). Depends on your goals. Might as well ask Cornell for a further discount in light of your other offers!

I actually have with UT, USC, and Vanderbilt, and all three declined to up their scholarships. I was honestly really surprised.

I'm going to see if Cornell can do anything else for me.

[El Principe]

150K isn't terribly bad for Cornell, except for the fact that I have ties to the South, so obviously that'd be a lot easier to repay around these parts as opposed to New York, which is where you'd likely end up without ties and not having attended a school in the region. I personally wouldn't want to repay 155K knowing it'd take me longer to pay that off in NYC or anywhere in the Northeast seeing as the take home pay would be significantly lower.

Honestly, the best answer is below:

CA? USC
TX? UT
South Eastern US? Vandy
Midwest? Wash U (due to the price difference more than placement really)

You need to think long and hard about where you want to live and practice, and make a decision based on that. I'd probably pick USC with that COA.

[McAvoy]

That's alotta debt, but it's probably a surefire investment in your situation.

Meh. All right, maybe not surefire. That kind of debt would keep me up at night, but their LST scores would eventually put me to sleep.

[BigZuck]

What are your ties to CA like? Just on paper, USC looks like it might be your best option but lack of ties might hurt somewhat.

I don't love the debt but I would probably just go to Cornell if big law is the be all, end all. I would also retake in June to try and get more scholarship money.

[krnpridejk]

I would totally vote Cornell.

As for myself, im looking at Cornell, Wash U, Minnesota (in the order of my preference) and I'm like 80% sure I'll be choosing Cornell based on my goals (International law (Asia-Korea/Japan related) work in BigLaw and perhaps politics or academia down the line...
Wash U just responded 10 minutes ago to my negotiation request, agreeing to up my scholarship to a total of 30K a year, and Minn. has offered 30K as well, but refused to up my scholy, and Cornell has offered only a 10K/yr, I'll be negotiating with Cornell in a bit, but i'm not too hopeful.
Either ways, Cornell, given its history, small class size, and most importantly its ivy league brand-name and prestige, will definitely give you most chance at landing a BigLaw, and the flexibility and portability across the country (as well as abroad, i'm sure) down the line~

It's def. a lot of debt, urs less so than mine, but I'm sure Cornell degree will be a worthy investment in the end!
Anyway, congrats on your achievements, and hope to see you at Cornell (or WashU if I end up choosing St. Louis over Ithaca winters)!

[mvenus]

What are your ties to CA like? Just on paper, USC looks like it might be your best option but lack of ties might hurt somewhat.

I don't love the debt but I would probably just go to Cornell if big law is the be all, end all. I would also retake in June to try and get more scholarship money.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by ties. If you mean family or business ties, almost all of my family is in the tri-state area, and I've only worked in NYC and LI.

If you mean something else, I'm lost haha.

[retaking23]

I would totally vote Cornell.


It's def. a lot of debt, urs less so than mine, but I'm sure I HOPE a Cornell degree will be a worthy investment in the end!

[thebobs1987]

What are your ties to CA like? Just on paper, USC looks like it might be your best option but lack of ties might hurt somewhat.

I don't love the debt but I would probably just go to Cornell if big law is the be all, end all. I would also retake in June to try and get more scholarship money.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by ties. If you mean family or business ties, almost all of my family is in the tri-state area, and I've only worked in NYC and LI.

If you mean something else, I'm lost haha.

If you are from NY and cool doing big law for several years in NYC to pay down the debt I would do Cornell. I agree a retake in June wouldn't be a bad idea to try and gain some extra money

[arklaw13]

Vandy 1L here.

First, do your numbers figure in COL?

That's a pretty good price, all things considered. I think you really need to have a more concrete idea of what you what market you want to end up in.

If you wanted to work in the Southeast and had ties to some southern market, I'd probably tell you to go with Vandy. Southern markets are hard without ties, even with great grades. Nashville is no exception.

If your goal is NYC, Cornell makes more sense. Not that Vandy doesn't place in NYC, but you'll need higher grades than you would at Cornell, probably top third at Vandy vs. median at Cornell.

If you really want CA, I really have no idea what to tell you. Vandy doesn't send many people to CA, but if I have no idea if that's self-selection or what. Seems like everyone with high grades who wants CA gets there, but I have no idea if this is true closer to the median. I doubt it.

If you really want TX, UT would make sense since you don't seem to have ties. You could be boxing yourself in, though. Not sure. UT people can probably elaborate.

[cron1834]

OP, I'm in a similar boat; have two similar offers, waiting on Finaid info from Cornell.

You mentioned that USC wouldn't negotiate, but you cite a total COA that suggests you're extremely close to full-tuition (even when I consider the $15k personal savings). Either you're under-reporting costs or you don't have much tuition to pay.

Anyway, I think I agree with Fiero here - if Biglaw is by far your most important goal, then Cornell is probably your best bet. On the other hand, if you REALLY want a chance of scenery and some warm weather, then those are pretty good COA numbers for USC and WUSTL. They're both 30-some percent in the large firm scores this year (though WUSTL averages lower than that - USC averages 36 over the last few years). The concerns here are obvious - you don't want to go to USC/WUSTL and end up in the 1/3rd of the class that's underemployed, and you don't want to get $160k in the hole at Cornell and be in the 40% of the class that doesn't get Biglaw and be royally fucked.

Does Biglaw > geography/debt-aversion for you?

[Lavitz]

The numbers for WUSTL and USC are tempting, but since you want to start out doing biglaw and it doesn't sound like you have a strong preference for a certain region, Cornell is probably the best bet.

If you had ties in any of the other regions and really wanted to work there, I'd pick the local school over Cornell.

Disclaimer: Cornell 1L.

Also feel free to PM me if you have any questions about Cornell.

[mvenus]

OP, I'm in a similar boat; have two similar offers, waiting on Finaid info from Cornell.

You mentioned that USC wouldn't negotiate, but you cite a total COA that suggests you're extremely close to full-tuition (even when I consider the $15k personal savings). Either you're under-reporting costs or you don't have much tuition to pay.

Does Biglaw > geography/debt-aversion for you?

Yeah, based on my math USC is about 85%-90% of full tuition, so really the big cost at USC is going to be COL. I was more surprised by UT or Vandy not at least attempting to match honestly.

And I'm not really sure how to answer that question. In my mind, debt-aversion is edging out Biglaw, but looking at the employment numbers out of WashU is troubling. Geography is really up in the air for me. I have almost all of my ties in the NY area, nowhere else. But the COL and taxes in NY is really mind boggling compared to so many other places in the country.

[mvenus]

Vandy 1L here.

First, do your numbers figure in COL?

That's a pretty good price, all things considered. I think you really need to have a more concrete idea of what you what market you want to end up in.

If you wanted to work in the Southeast and had ties to some southern market, I'd probably tell you to go with Vandy. Southern markets are hard without ties, even with great grades. Nashville is no exception.

If your goal is NYC, Cornell makes more sense. Not that Vandy doesn't place in NYC, but you'll need higher grades than you would at Cornell, probably top third at Vandy vs. median at Cornell.

If you really want CA, I really have no idea what to tell you. Vandy doesn't send many people to CA, but if I have no idea if that's self-selection or what. Seems like everyone with high grades who wants CA gets there, but I have no idea if this is true closer to the median. I doubt it.

If you really want TX, UT would make sense since you don't seem to have ties. You could be boxing yourself in, though. Not sure. UT people can probably elaborate.

Yes the numbers do factor in COL.

And is it really that hard to make ties in the South, based on your experience?

[Glasseyes]

OP, I'm in a similar boat; have two similar offers, waiting on Finaid info from Cornell.

You mentioned that USC wouldn't negotiate, but you cite a total COA that suggests you're extremely close to full-tuition (even when I consider the $15k personal savings). Either you're under-reporting costs or you don't have much tuition to pay.

Does Biglaw > geography/debt-aversion for you?

Yeah, based on my math USC is about 85%-90% of full tuition, so really the big cost at USC is going to be COL. I was more surprised by UT or Vandy not at least attempting to match honestly.

And I'm not really sure how to answer that question. In my mind, debt-aversion is edging out Biglaw, but looking at the employment numbers out of WashU is troubling. Geography is really up in the air for me. I have almost all of my ties in the NY area, nowhere else. But the COL and taxes in NY is really mind boggling compared to so many other places in the country.

UT doesn't seem interested in matching USC at all anymore, and I've heard stories from others that UCLA can't be bothered anymore either, which is the most distressing considering they're as "peer" as you get. Seems to do with the USNWR slide, though USC's #'s over at LST are not very reassuring either, so maybe there's more at play.

[zman]

There is not much incentive for texas to match since they have no competition in the state and they probably have a ton of applicants they can take.