Go to ND for PI, or Walk Away? Forum

[Grizzlyman5]

Hey all,

So, I'm really conflicted as to whether I should go to ND for PI (legal services; hoping to land in Chicago) given these specs. Think you can give me some advice?

LSAT: 165
GPA: 3.69
Indiana Resident
Scholly: 39k/year from ND

All the rest (including CoL) would come from loans.

I recently had decided that I wouldn't be going to law school at all given my numbers (only had a 25k scholly), but ND came back to me with 5k more in need-based aid, and I just got accepted into an Summer Program for low-income Indiana students to be able to go to law school, which comes with a 9k scholarship for all 3 years upon completion of the program.

Financially, is this a sound decision? Especially given the uncertainty with the future of the PSLF program, which I would likely be taking advantage of? And the averageness of ND's LRAP program?

Personally, I believe that I would enjoy going to law school, and doing legal services, but I think I could find just as much fulfillment in another career that wouldn't load me down with a frightening amount of debt. I could retake, but honestly, the nature of the PSLF program going forward makes me nervous to do PI no matter what scholarship/school I could be looking at. I'm just having a hard time deciding what to do here at the 11th hour before deposit deadlines.

Thanks

[kyle010723]

If you don't think law school is right for you, then don't go is the right answer. But that is quite a nice offer from ND (I am assuming it is 39k a year), and is not a bad deal IMO.

[McAvoy]

Just walk away.


But seriously, if it's 39K a year, then go for it. Why not? If it's 39k dispersed over three years, then ^^^

[Nomo]

COL and tuition increases aren't nothing. And the job market for PI legal services is much worse than it was a decade ago. Its probably not getting better unless we have some kind of major economic boom that and some of that money trickles down to non-profits in the form of state-aid and grants. That said, I think you will be able to eventually get a PI legal services job coming out of Notre Dame - it wil probably pay 35-45k and with very small raises. Are you confident you can pay your debt on that salary if PSLF goes away?

You've probably thought of all this. And it is a tough call. What would you do if you didn't go to law school? If you don't know then I wouldn't recommend going to law school. There are other ways for a smart young person to make a difference in this world, figure out what your 2nd choice is and only go to law school if you are sure it will be more fulfilling then that 2nd choice.

[Grizzlyman5]

COL and tuition increases aren't nothing. And the job market for PI legal services is much worse than it was a decade ago. Its probably not getting better unless we have some kind of major economic boom that and some of that money trickles down to non-profits in the form of state-aid and grants. That said, I think you will be able to eventually get a PI legal services job coming out of Notre Dame - it wil probably pay 35-45k and with very small raises. Are you confident you can pay your debt on that salary if PSLF goes away?

You've probably thought of all this. And it is a tough call. What would you do if you didn't go to law school? If you don't know then I wouldn't recommend going to law school. There are other ways for a smart young person to make a difference in this world, figure out what your 2nd choice is and only go to law school if you are sure it will be more fulfilling then that 2nd choice.

I have, and COL & tuition certainly do worry me, as does the crappy job market. The PI Department Guy at ND said that the actual percentages of PI-minded graduates that get PI jobs in Chicago is sub 50%, and I have a PI 0L friend at ND who has given similar anecdotal advice. And the PSLF controversy earlier makes me worried I would be able to pay back that loan debt. I'm honestly still leaning towards not going, but this is making me reconsider. Along my parents and girlfriend's parents who both believe I should go, even with only that initial $25k/year scholarship. I think they're just looking at law school as if I would be the next Atticus Finch, and it's hard to disabuse them of that notion.

And I'd likely do what I do now as my second option. I'm doing fundraising work in CT at a tuition free, inner city middle school for underserved students. I'd likely try to find a salaried position doing this either back in Chi, or on the East Coast somewhere. I like the non-profit sector and mission, I'm just not 100% sure I want to be a fundraising development guy forever, though I'm not afraid to take a few years to find out.

[kyle010723]

I would say dont go then. Why suffer through law school when that is not even what you want to do.

[lawschool22]

Walk away or retake

[Nomo]

Take your time. Law school isn't going anywhere. Your law school options will probably be similar in 2 or 3 years.

[Grizzlyman5]

Does anyone else have any opinions on this? I'm just thinking this through more. After doing the financial worksheet on LST, it says me debt at repayment would be roughly $117k, with monthly 10 yr payments of $1.4k. It seems marginally doable considering ND will give up to 12k/year in LRAP if under 45k salary, but once you start creeping above $45k (which I would think would happen over that 10 yr period), the percentage they're willing to pay really starts dropping.

[worldtraveler]

Don't go. You're not sure it's what you want, so don't do it yet.

If you want this kind of work, any chance you can get a full ride to a school like Indiana? I think that would be a far better choice for someone with your interests and concerns.

[badaboom61]

Does anyone else have any opinions on this? I'm just thinking this through more. After doing the financial worksheet on LST, it says me debt at repayment would be roughly $117k, with monthly 10 yr payments of $1.4k. It seems marginally doable considering ND will give up to 12k/year in LRAP if under 45k salary, but once you start creeping above $45k (which I would think would happen over that 10 yr period), the percentage they're willing to pay really starts dropping.

Walk. It sounds like you care more about serving the public interest than you care about being a lawyer, and there a plenty of ways to that that won't cost you over 100 grand.

I would be very weary about any real reliance on LRAP or PSLF, because 10 years is a long time from now and we have no idea what these programs will look like then or what your ability to hold down a job that qualifies for these options will be.

[mtn663]

Don't go. You're not sure it's what you want, so don't do it yet.

If you want this kind of work, any chance you can get a full ride to a school like Indiana? I think that would be a far better choice for someone with your interests and concerns.

[Grizzlyman5]

Don't go. You're not sure it's what you want, so don't do it yet.

If you want this kind of work, any chance you can get a full ride to a school like Indiana? I think that would be a far better choice for someone with your interests and concerns.

Not terribly sure. Accepted at Indiana (resident status), with 15k/year, and this Summer Institute also offers scholarships for public schools at 6.5k/year. Which, I believe, would still leave me in nearly the same boat financially. And IU's LRAP program seems to be non-existent currently and "in development" for the future. But, that being said, I don't know if IU has the cache to get me to Chicago, and I'm not sure I could really get a full ride out of them. I also honestly don't know enough about the Indy legal market to know if there's much legal service opportunities around the city. And while my negotiation with IU-Maurer was pre-deadlines, they weren't interested in matching ND's offer.

I think you all are right, and are really confirming what I've been thinking for a while. It's just hard not to question your own reasoning when your whole support system is telling you to go. But thank you everyone for helping me to turn down law school for now, and (hopefully) make the right choice.

[FlanAl]

Correct me if I'm wrong but someone just told me the other day that if you have a PI job that pays less than 55k from ND they'll throw you an extra grand a month to help you out AND you still have their LRAP.

[Grizzlyman5]

That's news to me. I don't see that spelled out in their LRAP Program. Their LRAP maxes out at $1k/month from the way it reads to me.

Edit: Link for ND LRAP, in case I can't read accurately. http://law.nd.edu/admissions/financial- ... p-program/

[FlanAl]

maybe its like a bonus fellowship or something? Anyways, it was probably just the PI rumor mill running wild.

[worldtraveler]

Don't go. You're not sure it's what you want, so don't do it yet.

If you want this kind of work, any chance you can get a full ride to a school like Indiana? I think that would be a far better choice for someone with your interests and concerns.

Not terribly sure. Accepted at Indiana (resident status), with 15k/year, and this Summer Institute also offers scholarships for public schools at 6.5k/year. Which, I believe, would still leave me in nearly the same boat financially. And IU's LRAP program seems to be non-existent currently and "in development" for the future. But, that being said, I don't know if IU has the cache to get me to Chicago, and I'm not sure I could really get a full ride out of them. I also honestly don't know enough about the Indy legal market to know if there's much legal service opportunities around the city. And while my negotiation with IU-Maurer was pre-deadlines, they weren't interested in matching ND's offer.

I think you all are right, and are really confirming what I've been thinking for a while. It's just hard not to question your own reasoning when your whole support system is telling you to go. But thank you everyone for helping me to turn down law school for now, and (hopefully) make the right choice.

That's the right move. 2 years from now if you still want to go, apply again and see how it turns out. Law school isn't going anywhere.