Wustl or BU Forum

[guyfox]

So these are my choices-

Wustl COA: 110k
BU COA: 138k

I want to do something China-related in the future. I'm looking at biglaw/midlaw china practice as a future goal. I don't care about my location.

Wustl: I have connections in St. Louis, I love the building and atmosphere, the faculty/students that I met were all great, they have what I'm looking for academically, it will be cheaper, and it has a higher ranking, but it's more regional, and there are not as many opportunities for international law in the mid-west .

BU: More internationally focused, larger job market, more diversity, a specific llm program in Asian legal studies, impressive faculty, but uglier building, fewer connections, more expensive (pre-negotiation), and lower ranking.

What do you guys think?

[chuckbass]

Have you talked to alumni who have done the Asian LLM? I would want to see what their thoughts are on BU and that specific program in light of your goals.

[n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t]

I have no idea what schools lead to jobs with a strong China focus, but I don't imagine those jobs are in Boston/StL either way. Gun to my head, I'd go to the cheaper one, but I'd also reconsider my goals.

[rackylo]

Disclaimer:0L here.

Small Law and Mid Law are unlikely to have China practice, therefore you need to target BigLaw, and probably NYC BigLaw with offices in the Greater China Region. According to the LST (http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/bu/washu/), BU has a slightly better BigLaw score (27.1% v. 23%) and sends a higher percentage of its students to NY (12.1% v. 7%). But I'm not sure if you should give up a cheaper and higher-ranked school for these advantages. BU also has a higher underemployment score (27.5% v. 19%).

Do you speak Chinese? It would be easier for you to transfer to China/HK offices if you have the language skill. But that only happens after you get into BigLaw......What's your stats? Have you considered retake to get into T-14?

[El Principe]

A China practice in St. Louis?

OP been watching too much House of Cards

But seriously, I'd take the LSAT again because those schools are too expensive to not have a good shot for your goals.

[chuckbass]

Disclaimer:0L here.

Small Law and Mid Law are unlikely to have China practice, therefore you need to target BigLaw, and probably NYC BigLaw with offices in the Greater China Region. According to the LST (http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/bu/washu/), BU has a slightly better BigLaw score (27.1% v. 23%) and sends a higher percentage of its students to NY (12.1% v. 7%). But I'm not sure if you should give up a cheaper and higher-ranked school for these advantages. BU also has a higher underemployment score (27.5% v. 19%).

Do you speak Chinese? It would be easier for you to transfer to China/HK offices if you have the language skill. But that only happens after you get into BigLaw......What's your stats? Have you considered retake to get into T-14?

I don't understand why people use incorrect data. Wustl is up to 29% biglaw.

[rackylo]

Disclaimer:0L here.

Small Law and Mid Law are unlikely to have China practice, therefore you need to target BigLaw, and probably NYC BigLaw with offices in the Greater China Region. According to the LST (http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/bu/washu/), BU has a slightly better BigLaw score (27.1% v. 23%) and sends a higher percentage of its students to NY (12.1% v. 7%). But I'm not sure if you should give up a cheaper and higher-ranked school for these advantages. BU also has a higher underemployment score (27.5% v. 19%).

Do you speak Chinese? It would be easier for you to transfer to China/HK offices if you have the language skill. But that only happens after you get into BigLaw......What's your stats? Have you considered retake to get into T-14?

I don't understand why people use incorrect data. Wustl is up to 29% biglaw.

Sorry, LST will update their data within an hour but now it still displays the 2012 stats.
2013 BigLaw stats: BU 24.1% WUSTL 29%

[Total Litigator]

You should really be aiming for T14's on the coasts if you want to do China-related work - even then it's still a long shot, because even if you make biglaw, it won't be up to you what practice you're placed in. Although obviously you would be more likely to be placed in a China-related practice area if you speak Chinese and have some prior China related experience.

Also, I have no idea what mid-law China-related legal work would consist of... immigration?

[jtype01]

Disclaimer:0L here.

Small Law and Mid Law are unlikely to have China practice, therefore you need to target BigLaw, and probably NYC BigLaw with offices in the Greater China Region. According to the LST (http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/bu/washu/), BU has a slightly better BigLaw score (27.1% v. 23%) and sends a higher percentage of its students to NY (12.1% v. 7%). But I'm not sure if you should give up a cheaper and higher-ranked school for these advantages. BU also has a higher underemployment score (27.5% v. 19%).

Do you speak Chinese? It would be easier for you to transfer to China/HK offices if you have the language skill. But that only happens after you get into BigLaw......What's your stats? Have you considered retake to get into T-14?

I don't understand why people use incorrect data. Wustl is up to 29% biglaw.

Sorry, LST will update their data within an hour but now it still displays the 2012 stats.
2013 stats: BU 24.1% WUSTL 29%

Here's the 2013 data:

BU: 24.1 +2.5 = 26.6%
https://www.bu.edu/law/prospective/care ... .17.14.pdf
WUSTL: 29 + 3.3 = 32.3%
http://law.wustl.edu/career_services/em ... y-2013.pdf

[guyfox]

.

[chuckbass]

Ok to clear things up, I have a huge background with China and do speak Chinese. It's what I spent all of undergrad doing.

There are China practices in St. Louis, just not many. I've looked at quite a few firms in St. Louis and Chicago that have what I'm looking for. It's just not comparable to NYC or DC obviously. But both schools end up placing students in those cities.

Also, I found alums from both schools working at firms that I would like to be at. I'm just torn about what my best option is.

Maybe email some of those people with the positions you want that are in STL and ask them about wustl. It couldn't hurt to ask.

[cinephile]

The BU LLM study abroad programs are harder to get into than you might think. I was interested in one as well and I was informed by the director of that program that they won't let you in unless you have already secured a post-graduate job (basically, you need to have a 2L SA lined up by the time you're applying for this program during your 2L year). They want to make sure that you're spending your 3L year in the States searching for jobs/interviewing/etc. if you don't already have one lined up. They are emphatic about the notion that these foreign LLM programs are NOT for securing a job abroad, they're purely for increasing your knowledge about foreign law to either aid in your American practice or just an academic interest. Hope that helps.

[BigZuck]

Neither cuz cost and don't align with career goals. Retake and aim higher or retake and readjust career goals.

[rad lulz]

Neither cuz cost and don't align with career goals. Retake and aim higher or retake and readjust career goals.

Credited

[Nomo]

Your chances of meeting your career goals are low at either option. How much money are you going to spend for a puncher's chance at getting the job you want?

Don't go. Re-take and reapply in search of better options if you want.

[$alty]

I don't understand why people use incorrect data. Wustl is up to 29% biglaw.

chilllllll

[guyfox]

.

[BigZuck]

You guys are all so negative lol. Retaking is not one of my options. Both WUSTL and BU are great schools with long histories and I would be happy attending either. Both schools are my top choices. I understand that you guys think t-14 is the only sure way to get the career you want, but the current students I have talked to at these schools are doing great and I'm not worried about ending up on the streets with either of these options. If I can't manage to get biglaw then I will find other opportunities, and if nothing works and I don't like any of the options then I will do government or something else. It's not the end of the world, and even with significant loan debt + a 60k/year job I will be better off than what I grew up on.

I chose these schools because of their programs and what they have to offer. Their international law courses, their externships and clinics, their study abroad opportunities in mainland China, Hong Kong, and Singapore, their faculty, etc.
Harvard only has one semester abroad program in China, and it's at the same school (Fudan University) that WUSTL sends it's students.

Also, I think I'd prefer the environment at WUSTL or BU over a t-14 school...I am extremely happy with both options, I just need to pick one (so saying none of the above is not helpful lol).

I don't think anybody who posted is T14 or bust, and its not our fault that your options are too expensive and your career goals are too remote to acheive from these schools. That's on you, not us.

Now, do you want to point out the logical fallacies in your first paragraph or would you like someone to do it for you? Pretty sure every sentence has at least one.

I'll start: "Retaking is not one of my options."
Of course it is, there's no limit to how many times you can retake the LSAT.

Ok, who has the next sentence?

[cinephile]

You guys are all so negative lol.

And you're being incredibly naive. I don't know who you spoke to at BU, but as a current 3L I can tell you that 2/3 of my class doesn't have anything lined up for after graduation. It is very bad and many people at planning on taking advantage of the school's part-time volunteer fellowship for $15/hr (in previous years it was only $10/hr, so this is a huge improvement). But it's not good.

Also, did you read what I posted above? The study abroad programs at BU aren't real. They're for show and to lure in prospective students. Very, very few students get to take part in these programs. You definitely shouldn't make a decision about your education based on a program for which you probably won't be eligible.

Also, I'm not sure why you'd think the environment at BU or WUSTL is more chill than at a T14. People I know at Harvard tend to say that it's super chill because there's not much competition, everyone will land something -- this is not true of schools like WUSTL and BU.

If you want to throw your life away, that's fine. But you've been informed, so no crying later that nobody told you how bad it was.

[sublime]

..

[180kickflip]

cinephile probably gave the realest response you could possibly get, but if that doesn't give you any second thoughts...just choose the city you like best. The school may seem comparable, but the environment probably isn't. If you prefer boston and would be cool making your career in new england, go BU. If not, go WUSTL.

[chuckbass]

Also, I'm not sure why you'd think the environment at BU or WUSTL is more chill than at a T14. People I know at Harvard tend to say that it's super chill because there's not much competition, everyone will land something -- this is not true of schools like WUSTL and BU.

I think chill has a different meaning here, insofar as people may be less aspie at WUSTL or BU then people at Harvard.

[cinephile]

Also, I'm not sure why you'd think the environment at BU or WUSTL is more chill than at a T14. People I know at Harvard tend to say that it's super chill because there's not much competition, everyone will land something -- this is not true of schools like WUSTL and BU.

I think chill has a different meaning here, insofar as people may be less aspie at WUSTL or BU then people at Harvard.

I was thinking less gunnerish and all around awful. I'd take someone aspie and sincere over superficially charming any day.

Also, WUSTL might be a somewhat different position than BU because at least it's the best school in its city. For whatever that's worth.

[guyfox]

If I sounded like a jerk or something in my last post I'm sorry. I appreciate the helpful, honest responses I got from a few of you.

I have to say I've talked to more WashU students than BU students, so the input is helpful. I'm surprised that 2/3 of your class doesn't have anything lined up, cinephile. Do you think this is more than the previous years? Also, don't people typically try to pass the bar first? Regardless, that is concerning.

Maybe I am being naive about the study abroad programs but if it is possible, and some students do indeed participate, then isn't it a matter of how hard you are willing to work to make sure you meet the requirements and are eligible? (I'm talking more about the semester abroad programs than the LLM, I can see how securing a position ahead of time would be really tricky)

Also, I didn't say wustl and BU are more chill, I just said that I think I would prefer the environment better based on my impressions. It's just an opinion, that's all. From what I've heard in this thread though I'm leaning more towards WashU :/

Now, do you want to point out the logical fallacies in your first paragraph or would you like someone to do it for you? Pretty sure every sentence has at least one.

I'll start: "Retaking is not one of my options."
Of course it is, there's no limit to how many times you can retake the LSAT.

As for my logical fallacies- I didn't say retaking is not an option, I said retaking is not one of MY options. In order for you to judge whether or not this is true you would have to know my personal situation, which you don't.

Now let's look at your fallacies-
"there's no limit to how many times you can retake the LSAT" - Without extenuating circumstances, you may not take the LSAT more than three times in any two-year period. Also, (since you were directing this at me) I cannot afford to take the LSAT and received a fee waiver, which only gives me 2 LSATs. For some people (anyone without extenuating circumstances, and anyone who cannot afford the test) there IS a limit to how many times we can retake the LSAT.

The rest of my post was just filled with my personal opinions. They don't have to be true to you.

[guyfox]

Also, WUSTL might be a somewhat different position than BU because at least it's the best school in its city. For whatever that's worth.

I have thought about this. And I've heard that St. Louis firms typically like people who are from St. Louis. So going to wustl does boost my chances a little bit there.