Not sure if I'm in a good position or terrible position... Forum

[Lebrarian_Booker]

WUSTL ($40k/year)
Notre Dame ($25k/year)
UMN ($20k/year+instate tuition)
GW ($16k/year)

I want to work in BigLaw in Chicago or Los Angeles.

I've taken the LSAT 3 times already and am not eligible to retake until December 2014.

Working with a 3.7/165.

WUSTL is the highest ranking school I've been admitted to (am on a few waitlists) and offered the highest scholarship. If I sit out another cycle to retake I could potentially fail to up my score and in reapplying may not get a similar scholarship or even admission to some of these places (market looks to maybe be more competitive next year). What should I do?


Essentially, is one in the hand worth two in the bush here?

[thebobs1987]

WUSTL ($40k/year)
Notre Dame ($25k/year)
UMN ($20k/year+instate tuition)
GW ($16k/year)

I want to work in BigLaw in Chicago or Los Angeles.

I've taken the LSAT 3 times already and am not eligible to retake until December 2014.

Working with a 3.7/165.

WUSTL is the highest ranking school I've been admitted to (am on a few waitlists) and offered the highest scholarship. If I sit out another cycle to retake I could potentially fail to up my score and in reapplying may not get a similar scholarship or even admission to some of these places (market looks to maybe be more competitive next year). What should I do?


Essentially, is one in the hand worth two in the bush here?

Big Law is unlikely from any of them. But WUSTL at 40k a year is not a bad deal. If you really want big law you will have to wait til next year and retake.

[Winston1984]

How did you prep/where were you PTing leading up to the test? 40k at WUSTL is a real solid option. Also, are you K-JD?

[Lebrarian_Booker]

How did you prep/where were you PTing leading up to the test? 40k at WUSTL is a real solid option. Also, are you K-JD?

Took a prep course for the first one, prepped by myself for the second and third tries. PTing around 167/168 generally.

Also, already am 2 years out from UG.

[northwood]

what is the total cost for each school? HOw strong are your ties to both Chicago and LA? Do you have ties anywhere else, or is it one of those two?

[Lebrarian_Booker]

what is the total cost for each school? HOw strong are your ties to both Chicago and LA? Do you have ties anywhere else, or is it one of those two?

COA:

WUSTL $72,585
UMN $57,136
GW $77,610
ND $67,480

I'm not so much concerned with COA as with tuition (WUSTL is $48,345) as I anticipate some assistance from parents with living expenses.

I'm originally from Chicago (family+extended family lives there) and have an uncle in LA--but I'm not sure either of these constitute "strong ties" in a relevant sense for legal employment.

[03152016]

what is the total cost for each school? HOw strong are your ties to both Chicago and LA? Do you have ties anywhere else, or is it one of those two?

COA:

WUSTL $72,585
UMN $57,136
GW $77,610
ND $67,480

I'm not so much concerned with COA as with tuition (WUSTL is $48,345) as I anticipate some assistance from parents with living expenses.

I'm originally from Chicago (family+extended family lives there) and have an uncle in LA--but I'm not sure either of these constitute "strong ties" in a relevant sense for legal employment.

The real COA is tuition plus room/board, fees, books, health insurance, loan fees, and interest. Those numbers look too low.

[Winston1984]

I think WUSTL is a good option based on all of the info you have given us. But you can't be biglaw or bust. If you are okay with working in a small firm, then go for it. If you have to have biglaw you have to retake.

[Lebrarian_Booker]

I think WUSTL is a good option based on all of the info you have given us. But you can't be biglaw or bust. If you are okay with working in a small firm, then go for it. If you have to have biglaw you have to retake.

That's actually a good point to bring up. I don't have to have BigLaw, but for the investment to make sense for me in terms of time, tuition, and leaving my current job, I'd have to be looking at a starting salary of around $100k.

[northwood]

stay at your current job.

[Nomo]

A starting salary of 100k is unlikely from any of these schools. There are very few jobs with starting salaries paying between 60 and 160k. There are a few firms of 100+ attorneys, mainly in secondary market that hire new lawyers at 120-145k. But, if you don't land that 160k job you're really looking at 40-60k - the vast majority of starting salaries are in this range.

[Winston1984]

I think WUSTL is a good option based on all of the info you have given us. But you can't be biglaw or bust. If you are okay with working in a small firm, then go for it. If you have to have biglaw you have to retake.

That's actually a good point to bring up. I don't have to have BigLaw, but for the investment to make sense for me in terms of time, tuition, and leaving my current job, I'd have to be looking at a starting salary of around $100k.

Tough call. I'm leaning with northwood here. Do you like your job? The thing that sucks is that you'll either make market pay or $60kish (most likely). If I hated my job or really wanted to be a lawyer I would go, but I wouldn't go with the stipulation that I make $100k. I guess you could always drop out after 1L. Would you be able to go back to your old job if your grades weren't good enough?

[Lebrarian_Booker]

I think WUSTL is a good option based on all of the info you have given us. But you can't be biglaw or bust. If you are okay with working in a small firm, then go for it. If you have to have biglaw you have to retake.

That's actually a good point to bring up. I don't have to have BigLaw, but for the investment to make sense for me in terms of time, tuition, and leaving my current job, I'd have to be looking at a starting salary of around $100k.

Tough call. I'm leaning with northwood here. Do you like your job? The thing that sucks is that you'll either make market pay or $60kish (most likely). If I hated my job or really wanted to be a lawyer I would go, but I wouldn't go with the stipulation that I make $100k. I guess you could always drop out after 1L. Would you be able to go back to your old job if your grades weren't good enough?

Might be able to, at least could probably find something similar. It's pretty much a $50k/year gig with not much upwards potential. I don't love it, I don't hate it either.

[n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t]

what is the total cost for each school? HOw strong are your ties to both Chicago and LA? Do you have ties anywhere else, or is it one of those two?

COA:

WUSTL $72,585
UMN $57,136
GW $77,610
ND $67,480

I'm not so much concerned with COA as with tuition (WUSTL is $48,345) as I anticipate some assistance from parents with living expenses.

I'm originally from Chicago (family+extended family lives there) and have an uncle in LA--but I'm not sure either of these constitute "strong ties" in a relevant sense for legal employment.

The real COA is tuition plus room/board, fees, books, health insurance, loan fees, and interest. Those numbers look too low.

Those numbers are completely unrealistic. You will definitely spend far more than $70k on WUSTL unless you have family you can live with in StL.

[Lebrarian_Booker]

what is the total cost for each school? HOw strong are your ties to both Chicago and LA? Do you have ties anywhere else, or is it one of those two?

COA:

WUSTL $72,585
UMN $57,136
GW $77,610
ND $67,480

I'm not so much concerned with COA as with tuition (WUSTL is $48,345) as I anticipate some assistance from parents with living expenses.

I'm originally from Chicago (family+extended family lives there) and have an uncle in LA--but I'm not sure either of these constitute "strong ties" in a relevant sense for legal employment.

The real COA is tuition plus room/board, fees, books, health insurance, loan fees, and interest. Those numbers look too low.

Those numbers are completely unrealistic. You will definitely spend far more than $70k on WUSTL unless you have family you can live with in StL.

Sorry, all figures listed were per year, not total for 3 years.

[Otunga]

WUSTL.

It seems with small law that starting salaries relatively suck. A lot of it comes down to upwards potential. If on average these types of lawyers can make something like 80k or whatever else within ten years, that sounds like a good deal. Whereas if you end up going from firm to firm as an associate and make lower salaries, then that's not a desirable trajectory.

[n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t]

Sorry, all figures listed were per year, not total for 3 years.

That makes even less sense haha. I came up with ~$100k for WUSTL with the exact same award ($120k). You will probably be paying ~$15k/year for tuition and CoL will be relatively low. I hope you dont plan on paying $60k/year for living costs :P.

[John Everyman]

Plugged your numbers into my (lawschool22's? I think) spreadsheet and got 90k at repayment for you and 128k total with a 10 year payment plan. I also gave you a total of 16,000 dollars of income across all 3 of your summers (seems relatively realistic, but 0L so who knows...)

[bound]

what is the total cost for each school? HOw strong are your ties to both Chicago and LA? Do you have ties anywhere else, or is it one of those two?

COA:

WUSTL $72,585
UMN $57,136
GW $77,610
ND $67,480

I'm not so much concerned with COA as with tuition (WUSTL is $48,345) as I anticipate some assistance from parents with living expenses.

I'm originally from Chicago (family+extended family lives there) and have an uncle in LA--but I'm not sure either of these constitute "strong ties" in a relevant sense for legal employment.

The real COA is tuition plus room/board, fees, books, health insurance, loan fees, and interest. Those numbers look too low.

Those numbers are completely unrealistic. You will definitely spend far more than $70k on WUSTL unless you have family you can live with in StL.

That WUSTL stat for total COA is actually pretty accurate. COL is super cheap and his tuition for all three years would only run ~27k.

[Lebrarian_Booker]

Sorry, all figures listed were per year, not total for 3 years.

That makes even less sense haha. I came up with ~$100k for WUSTL with the exact same award ($120k). You will probably be paying ~$15k/year for tuition and CoL will be relatively low. I hope you dont plan on paying $60k/year for living costs .

Haha, no. The numbers I quoted were raw per year numbers (not after scholarship, not after anything. just raw from the website).

[Otunga]

That WUSTL stat for total COA is actually pretty accurate. COL is super cheap and his tuition for all three years would only run ~27k.

The school's posted numbers have living expenses at 20k or so. At the admissions thread, students were posting that it's a lot cheaper than that there.

[bound]

That WUSTL stat for total COA is actually pretty accurate. COL is super cheap and his tuition for all three years would only run ~27k.

The school's posted numbers have living expenses at 20k or so. At the admissions thread, students were posting that it's a lot cheaper than that there.

Exactly. Which is why I'm saying that his total COA is pretty accurate - not low as others are suggesting.

[Otunga]

That WUSTL stat for total COA is actually pretty accurate. COL is super cheap and his tuition for all three years would only run ~27k.

The school's posted numbers have living expenses at 20k or so. At the admissions thread, students were posting that it's a lot cheaper than that there.

Exactly. Which is why I'm saying that his total COA is pretty accurate - not low as others are suggesting.

Ah, right.

[n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t]

Exactly. Which is why I'm saying that his total COA is pretty accurate - not low as others are suggesting.

WUSTL's tuition+fees is around $50k now. With no tuition guarantee program, I assume pretty much every school will raise costs by at least $2k/year. For 3 years of tuition, I get 52 + 54 + 56 = $162k. Minus scholarship = $42k. Do you really think you can live for 3 years in StL (or really, anywhere) for $10k/year? I have gone through periods of drastic cost cutting, and I have never lived on less than that.

[John Everyman]

Exactly. Which is why I'm saying that his total COA is pretty accurate - not low as others are suggesting.

WUSTL's tuition+fees is around $50k now. With no tuition guarantee program, I assume pretty much every school will raise costs by at least $2k/year. For 3 years of tuition, I get 52 + 54 + 56 = $162k. Minus scholarship = $42k. Do you really think you can live for 3 years in StL (or really, anywhere) for $10k/year? I have gone through periods of drastic cost cutting, and I have never lived on less than that.

Yeah, 72 total would be really low. These are the numbers I used for personal, books, transportation, and Room/Board respectively: 5,450, 2,000, 2,450, 9,251 and I'm much lower than the website for room/board. He is looking at around 100. But, seeing as that wasn't really part of his thread and he mentioned that his family will support his COL, it doesn't matter.

I don't know if you're in a terrible position, Leb, all I know is I'd take WUSTL at those numbers, and probably still will with a little lower.