GULC vs WUSTL $ Forum

[Gungnir]

-The schools you are considering: I'm in at GULC and WUSTL. WL at UVA and Michigan, held at Northwestern. Still waiting to hear from NYU, Cornell, and Duke.

-The total Cost of Attendance: 170k at WUSTL (75k scholarship) vs 260k at GULC (sticker).

-How you will be financing your COA: Entirely financed through loans

-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any): From New England, want NYC or DC.

-Your general career goals: I want non-profit PI. On the fence about whether I want to shoot for a few years in BigLaw first to pay down my loans, but I think that’s for another topic.

-Your LSAT/GPA numbers: 174/3.2

-How many times you have taken the LSAT: 1

I'm trying to figure out where I should deposit, and I'm really not sure if either option is a good one. Maybe I'd be better off hoping for another admit (would love NYU) and reapplying next cycle if I don't get it?

[BigZuck]

I mostly agree with your last sentence. WUSTL is a non-starter given cost/goals and GULC sticker seems kind of insane to me.

[DoveBodyWash]

WUSTL at 170k is a bad idea. But so is 260k at GULC....tbh i would wait to hear back from your remaining schools and/or re-apply next year

[runinthefront]

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[Gungnir]

WUSTL at 170k is a bad idea. But so is 260k at GULC....tbh i would wait to hear back from your remaining schools and/or re-apply next year

I'm curious--the OP is a splitter with an LSAT far above almost every school's median (and the vast majority's 75%). Assuming he applied to all these schools before December, what effect would sitting out a cycle and re-applying have?

I sent out my apps the first week in December, for what that's worth. Interested to see if anyone thinks applying in Sept. would help me.

[DoveBodyWash]

WUSTL at 170k is a bad idea. But so is 260k at GULC....tbh i would wait to hear back from your remaining schools and/or re-apply next year

I'm curious--the OP is a splitter with an LSAT far above almost every school's median (and the vast majority's 75%). Assuming he applied to all these schools before December, what effect would sitting out a cycle and re-applying have?

Yeah i admit that the benefits aren't as clear for OP due to his numbers..

But OP could apply to a different set of schools, or maybe just more schools to expand his options. And there's a good chance that schools will need his numbers more next cycle for some reason. Schools get more and more desperate every year so you never know? I just vote re-apply because both his WUSTL and GULC offers are questionable

[aboutmydaylight]

OP I don't think you'll get much from re-applying, you're just in the classic splitter quandary. I wouldn't attend either of those schools at those prices though. Ride out the waitlists and deposit at GULC I guess...

[Glasseyes]

I bet your cycle still has a few surprises up its sleeve with an LSAT in that range. Honestly, I'm surprised Northwestern didn't jump on it already. With some hustle you can probably shift that hold to an admittance, and then you've got some leverage from everybody. Plus NU would probably throw more money around than GULC anyway, so there's that. Honestly can't say if any of that would pan out to such a degree, but with some shrewd negotiation you could probably rustle up a bit more cash at least.

[DoveBodyWash]

OP I don't think you'll get much from re-applying, you're just in the classic splitter quandary. I wouldn't attend either of those schools at those prices though. Ride out the waitlists and deposit at GULC I guess...

Yea OP's LSAT is too high to get big schollies from the T20's and the GPA is too low for the T14's...it's a tough situation to be in.

If you opt not to re-apply then you need to start asking where you want to practice. If you have a clear geographic preference then it'll make the decision easier.

If not, GULC at sticker is a ton of debt. But 170k is a lot of debt for WUSTL prospects...i mean it's a 100k difference before interest so it's not a small difference. It's a tough call but if it were me I think i'd just double down and take the better prospects at GULC even if it's at sticker. But it's possible to get BigLaw from WUSTL. I never know what the odds are at GULC because it's hard to tell how much of their relatively lower BigLaw placement comes from people self-selecting into gov't instead of BigLaw. But the GULC brand is stronger than WUSTL's. Only you can decide whether it's worth sticker.

[BigZuck]

OP I don't think you'll get much from re-applying, you're just in the classic splitter quandary. I wouldn't attend either of those schools at those prices though. Ride out the waitlists and deposit at GULC I guess...

Yea OP's LSAT is too high to get big schollies from the T20's and the GPA is too low for the T14's...it's a tough situation to be in.

If you opt not to re-apply then you need to start asking where you want to practice. If you have a clear geographic preference then it'll make the decision easier.

If not, GULC at sticker is a ton of debt. But 170k is a lot of debt for WUSTL prospects...i mean it's a 100k difference before interest so it's not a small difference. It's a tough call but if it were me I think i'd just double down and take the better prospects at GULC even if it's at sticker. But it's possible to get BigLaw from WUSTL. I never know what the odds are at GULC because it's hard to tell how much of their relatively lower BigLaw placement comes from people self-selecting into gov't instead of BigLaw. But the GULC brand is stronger than WUSTL's. Only you can decide whether it's worth sticker.

I don't necessarily disagree with this, but he said NYC and DC big law. Do you think WUSTL has enough pull in those markets? I guess maybe I can see NYC but DC seems iffy to me. Or is the "national school" thing real? UT has pretty good placement overall but I always get the sense that NYC/DC is reserved for top 10% types and I assumed for WUSTLers it would be similar if not a bit harder to snag. Off base? Honest questions, not trying to say you're wrong or be contrarian.

[Chrysogonus]

The way I see it, you should be able to get one of UVA or Penn from ED. So, you shouldn't go anywhere worse than that for sticker (GULC). WUSTL scholarship doesnt look good enough either. If I were you, I would just wait and apply next year ED to UVA or Penn, and if you don't get that then apply ED to the other.

[n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t]

Both options are objectively terrible, but I would gamble with G here because you want PI. As long as you can get qualifying employment (not as easy as it sounds), you should be eligible for G's generous LRAP, potentially justifying the debt. There is no way NU (the ultimate LSAT whore) will reject you, so I'd be prepared to negotiate hardcore once you get some other T14 offers. WUSTL's LRAP is nowhere near as good as a T14 and the debt is too high otherwise. You are more likely than not to strike out at biglaw from either school, so I would not count that as a reliable outcome.

I don't see any value in holding off a cycle, but I cannot believe you did not get more money from T20 schools. A 174 should equal a full ride somewhere decent, no?

[Gungnir]

Both options are objectively terrible, but I would gamble with G here because you want PI. As long as you can get qualifying employment (not as easy as it sounds), you should be eligible for G's generous LRAP, potentially justifying the debt. There is no way NU (the ultimate LSAT whore) will reject you, so I'd be prepared to negotiate hardcore once you get some other T14 offers. WUSTL's LRAP is nowhere near as good as a T14 and the debt is too high otherwise. You are more likely than not to strike out at biglaw from either school, so I would not count that as a reliable outcome.

I don't see any value in holding off a cycle, but I cannot believe you did not get more money from T20 schools. A 174 should equal a full ride somewhere decent, no?

WL at Vandy, accepted at BC and GW but no awards. West coast and Texas aren't desirable options for me.

Thanks for the thoughts everyone, it's helpful to step out of the echo chamber in my head. Looks like WUSTL is out, still thinking about whether I want to burn $800 on the GULC deposit if I decide I don't want to go at sticker.

[Nova]

A 174 should equal a full ride somewhere decent, no?

Not with a 3.2

you pretty much need to be at/above both medians for that

[DoveBodyWash]

OP I don't think you'll get much from re-applying, you're just in the classic splitter quandary. I wouldn't attend either of those schools at those prices though. Ride out the waitlists and deposit at GULC I guess...

Yea OP's LSAT is too high to get big schollies from the T20's and the GPA is too low for the T14's...it's a tough situation to be in.

If you opt not to re-apply then you need to start asking where you want to practice. If you have a clear geographic preference then it'll make the decision easier.

If not, GULC at sticker is a ton of debt. But 170k is a lot of debt for WUSTL prospects...i mean it's a 100k difference before interest so it's not a small difference. It's a tough call but if it were me I think i'd just double down and take the better prospects at GULC even if it's at sticker. But it's possible to get BigLaw from WUSTL. I never know what the odds are at GULC because it's hard to tell how much of their relatively lower BigLaw placement comes from people self-selecting into gov't instead of BigLaw. But the GULC brand is stronger than WUSTL's. Only you can decide whether it's worth sticker.

I don't necessarily disagree with this, but he said NYC and DC big law. Do you think WUSTL has enough pull in those markets? I guess maybe I can see NYC but DC seems iffy to me. Or is the "national school" thing real? UT has pretty good placement overall but I always get the sense that NYC/DC is reserved for top 10% types and I assumed for WUSTLers it would be similar if not a bit harder to snag. Off base? Honest questions, not trying to say you're wrong or be contrarian.

Yeah no this is probably accurate. NYC just skims the top of the class at all the major schools, and it's the same here. OP has a chance at NYC and DC from WUSTL. It could definitely happen, but he'll need to be at LEAST top 20%, closer to 10% if he wants a secure shot.

So if OP is POSITIVE that he won't reapply, then my personal recommendation would be GULC unless something changes with his other options. But personally I would still reapply even though the likely benefits aren't as clear. There's still a chance that he'll have better options even if he applies with the same numbers. If he has a slight chance to avoid GULC w/ sticker or WUSTL with 170k debt, then he should take it IMO

[BigZuck]

OP I don't think you'll get much from re-applying, you're just in the classic splitter quandary. I wouldn't attend either of those schools at those prices though. Ride out the waitlists and deposit at GULC I guess...

Yea OP's LSAT is too high to get big schollies from the T20's and the GPA is too low for the T14's...it's a tough situation to be in.

If you opt not to re-apply then you need to start asking where you want to practice. If you have a clear geographic preference then it'll make the decision easier.

If not, GULC at sticker is a ton of debt. But 170k is a lot of debt for WUSTL prospects...i mean it's a 100k difference before interest so it's not a small difference. It's a tough call but if it were me I think i'd just double down and take the better prospects at GULC even if it's at sticker. But it's possible to get BigLaw from WUSTL. I never know what the odds are at GULC because it's hard to tell how much of their relatively lower BigLaw placement comes from people self-selecting into gov't instead of BigLaw. But the GULC brand is stronger than WUSTL's. Only you can decide whether it's worth sticker.

I don't necessarily disagree with this, but he said NYC and DC big law. Do you think WUSTL has enough pull in those markets? I guess maybe I can see NYC but DC seems iffy to me. Or is the "national school" thing real? UT has pretty good placement overall but I always get the sense that NYC/DC is reserved for top 10% types and I assumed for WUSTLers it would be similar if not a bit harder to snag. Off base? Honest questions, not trying to say you're wrong or be contrarian.

Yeah no this is probably accurate. NYC just skims the top of the class at all the major schools, and it's the same here. OP has a chance at NYC and DC from WUSTL. It could definitely happen, but he'll need to be at LEAST top 20%, closer to 10% if he wants a secure shot.

So if OP is POSITIVE that he won't reapply, then my personal recommendation would be GULC unless something changes with his other options. But personally I would still reapply even though the likely benefits aren't as clear. There's still a chance that he'll have better options even if he applies with the same numbers. If he has a slight chance to avoid GULC w/ sticker or WUSTL with 170k debt, then he should take it IMO

I agree. I don't know that a reapply would yield any better options but they certainly won't be worse. I'd rather sticker NYU than sticker GULC (but both scare me)

[DoveBodyWash]

I'd rather sticker NYU than sticker GULC (but both scare me)

+1

If OP gets the NYU option then I would probably suggest taking it.