Wanting to work in Texas, choosing between UVA and UTexas Forum

[Workingtitle]

The schools I'm considering and total COA

Texas: 65Kish
Virginia: 75Kish

I will be financing it entirely through loans and any income I make over my 1L and 2L summer.

General career goals/where I want to work

My pipe dream is to work for the State department and/or the UN. Obviously, if I was really committed to this, UVA would be the no-brainer. But, being realistic, because these jobs are extremely hard to get I probably won't be able to do them, and will end up trying for a Big Law job. I want to go Big Law for all the usual reasons (pay off debt, build resume, est.). Then, if I'm miserable there, I plan to try and move to an in-house position somewhere or find a firm that would be more enjoyable. I could also see myself doing public interest work trying to protect human rights, so I don't want to rule that option out.

I'm fairly open to living in any geographic region if a really great opportunity presented itself there. However, I'm from Texas, and would prefer to live/work here, because that is where my family and friends are.

The only other thing I would like to say about this is that I place a very high value on quality of life. I want to make enough money to be comfortable, but after that my most important criteria is to have a lot of time to spend with my friends/family, and to enjoy the work I'm doing. Obviously though, I'm willing to sacrifice down time with friends/family if I have a job that I absolutely love (like I imagine I would working for the State department or UN).

What I'm thinking now

So now I'm going to explain why I'm making this post, because I think a lot of people are going to be like "uh, go to UVA moron. Easy choice. How did you get such a good scholarship in the first place?" To these people, I want to explain that there is a bit of a cult around UTexas in Texas. I've talked to 10ish attorneys here, 6 I think from Big Law, who say that besides HYS, UTexas is the place to go if you want to practice in Texas. (As a fun aside, they all guessed UT would be ranked higher than UVA). In addition, I have friends and family who are relatively close to Austin (about 4 hours away), and I don't know anyone in the Virginia D.C. area. I'm also a little worried about the culture at UVA, because I'm not really a cargo shorts and bright pink shirt kind of guy. UTexas would, I think, absolutely give me a better network in Texas.

On the other hand, UVA is very clearly the better school, and would give me a better network nationally. It also is known for having really good quality of life, which as I've said is really important to me. And who knows, if I do well at UVA I just might be able to pull off a job at the State Department.

I know this was a long post, and I'm sorry about that, but I wanted to be thorough in my answers. I really appreciate any advice!

[RodneyRuxin]

I would hazard a guess that with more people wanting TX from UT it would be harder, and UVA is a much better school for employment...

[philosoraptor]

You'll be fine at UVa if you want Texas biglaw. You're not going to get State Dept. or biginternationalhumanrights from either, but UVa gives you a better shot at biglaw. To which area in Texas do you have ties? (Also, I guarantee you're not going to avoid cargo shorts and pink polos at UT.)

[transferror]

With a 10K difference, UVA hands down. I can't imagine that UT would give you much more (if any) opportunity in Texas than UVA + ties, and UVA has better prospects in any job field you could possibly choose.

[philosoraptor]

I would hazard a guess that with more people wanting TX from UT it would be harder, and UVA is a much better school for employment...

The first part is not right, but the second part pretty much is.

[n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t]

Is that a full ride at UT and UVA? Did you get into any better schools? I'd imagine someone who got a full ride at UVA would be competitive for HYS. If these are your only options, I'd definitely choose UVA.

[Workingtitle]

You'll be fine at UVa if you want Texas biglaw. You're not going to get State Dept. or biginternationalhumanrights from either, but UVa gives you a better shot at biglaw. To which area in Texas do you have ties? (Also, I guarantee you're not going to avoid cargo shorts and pink polos at UT.)

Well thanks for the encouragement! Haha and I have ties to the DFW area.

[Workingtitle]

Is that a full ride at UT and UVA? Did you get into any better schools? I'd imagine someone who got a full ride at UVA would be competitive for HYS. If these are your only options, I'd definitely choose UVA.

Thanks for your input.

It's full tuition at UT, and 50K a year at UVA. And I appreciate your confidence in me: I was rejected from Yale, waitlisted at Harvard, and haven't heard back yet from Stanford. If H or S pan out, maybe I'll come back and make another thread, but for right now I'm not feeling too good about my chances, so I want to move forward under the assumption they are not on the table. Plus, even if I get in to one, I think it will be maybe 125K more, and I'm not sure that's worth it.

And I was accepted to other T-14s too, but I feel like UT and UVA are my best offers right now.

[Trout et al]

UVA is easily worth 10k more than UT for getting jobs in general. Also, I don't know where you came up with the cargo shorts and pink shirt = UVA culture thing, but its not true. Have you visited the school?

[McAvoy]

Since when do bros wear cargo shorts? I thought people who wear cargo shorts were the butt of bros' jokes.

[WokeUpInACar]

UVA and it's not even close.

[PrideandGlory1776]

UVA and it's not even close.

+1

[kalvano]

after that my most important criteria is to have a lot of time to spend with my friends/family

Have you considered not being a lawyer? Generally a legal job that provides a comfortable life toy will cut quite a bit into time.

[BigZuck]

UVA and it's not even close.

+1

Absolutely

Phil, you don't think TX big law would be easier to get from UVA than from UT? Would you mind explaining? That goes against pretty much everything I have ever heard about TX big law.

[Pneumonia]

UVA is the easy choice here, but Texas is defensible. Both are really really good options so congrats on that. Also Raptor knows about this stuff but to just to throw my 0L cents in: UVA kids don't have a harder time at getting TX Biglaw than UT kids.

[El Principe]

I don't see how anyone from Texas could convince you Texas is the better choice at near equal COAs....

And yet 4 people voted for Texas.... (I'm going to UT FWIW).

From several people I've spoken with, TX firms will dig deeper into the classes of UVA compared to UT...

[shifty_eyed]

I don't see how anyone from Texas could convince you Texas is the better choice at near equal COAs....

And yet 4 people voted for Texas.... (I'm going to UT FWIW).

UVA Waitlisters

[philosoraptor]

To those asking, I think I read Rodney's comment ("with more people wanting TX from UT it would be harder") more narrowly than you guys. My point was that it's not necessarily going to make it more competitive to get Texas biglaw from within UT simply because more people want it there; traditional Texas firms recruit like crazy at UT. That is, you will have an edge from UVa not because your competition pool there will be smaller but rather because of overall preftige plus your ties. That along with cost is why your choice shouldn't really be close.

FWIW, when I was at Texas I saw plenty of bros wearing cargo shorts with their pink polos. Maybe that's taboo at UVa.

[Workingtitle]

Great, thanks for the responses everyone. Let me just say one thing, and then I'll go make my deposit at UVA:

I think I might should have clarified this more in my initial post, and I'm sorry I didn't. But here goes. Obviously, coming out of law school, UVA would make it easier for me to get a job basically anywhere. The reason I'm considering UT is looking at things more long term. There is always talk about how the people you go to law school with will form the most solid part of your network during your career, and this makes sense to me. At UVA, most people are going to go to D.C., New York, and California. These are places I'm more than likely never going to practice. Conversely, people coming from UT are most likely going to stay in Texas. This is what makes me second guess going to UVA. I'm pretty confident I will end up practicing in Texas, and I think it might be more beneficial to have the UTexas network in Texas than the UVA network. I'm thinking if I can wind up with a good Big Law job coming from Texas, which I think I can, this might make Texas more of the place to go.

Also, as far as the cargo shorts thing goes, that was more off the cuff than anything. I have visited UVA, and I just meant the culture there is more fratty. Anyway, there is a ton of info on these forums about UVA's culture, so I wasn't looking to turn this post into a conversation about that. I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

[philosoraptor]

I think I might should have clarified this more in my initial post, and I'm sorry I didn't. But here goes. Obviously, coming out of law school, UVA would make it easier for me to get a job basically anywhere. The reason I'm considering UT is looking at things more long term. There is always talk about how the people you go to law school with will form the most solid part of your network during your career, and this makes sense to me. At UVA, most people are going to go to D.C., New York, and California. These are places I'm more than likely never going to practice. Conversely, people coming from UT are most likely going to stay in Texas. This is what makes me second guess going to UVA. I'm pretty confident I will end up practicing in Texas, and I think it might be more beneficial to have the UTexas network in Texas than the UVA network. I'm thinking if I can wind up with a good Big Law job coming from Texas, which I think I can, this might make Texas more of the place to go.

Eh, I don't think anyone would fault you for choosing UT if this is the way you feel about staying in Texas. Objectively, it's a great school. It's true you'll have a head start on your in-state network, and it's not like you won't be able to get DC, NYC, or California from there (plenty do, and there's a ton of self-selection in that it's less common for people to go to UT wanting to go to the coasts). Also for what it's worth, I noticed that people who came in with large scholarships in my year were more likely to get LR and be at the top of the class.

Keep in mind, though, that you don't foreclose too many networking opportunities by taking UVa. The real networking comes when you start your job and make it a point to make connections in your community.

[kalvano]

If you are from Texas and have ties to Texas, UVA is the correct choice because it will open a broader range of options to you. Since you have Texas ties, it will be easy to come back from UVA and you won't have to justify not going to school in Texas. If you didn't have Texas ties, then UT is the better choice because it helps solidify your ties to Texas.

For the very minor money difference, you should absolutely go to UVA.

[emptyflare]

I don't see how anyone from Texas could convince you Texas is the better choice at near equal COAs....

And yet 4 people voted for Texas.... (I'm going to UT FWIW).

From several people I've spoken with, TX firms will dig deeper into the classes of UVA compared to UT...

If this is true, and it seems pretty reasonable, UVA is the place to go. Assuming you'll be at median after your first year at either UT or UVA, UVA is the better choice for your goals.

[Kool-Aid]

As someone going to UT, I say UVA as well. I have heard of the benefits of the UT network in Texas, but you need to assume median anywhere. Median at UVA will give you better odds.

Good luck

[Longhorn88]

You'll need to be at median or above to get a biglaw screener coming from either school, so it doesn't really matter. Texas BigLaw has a heavy focus on local ties, so if that's what you know you want, go to UT. If you think you want to work on the East Coast, go to UVA. If you don't know, go wherever you think you'll be happiest. It's 3 years of your life.

source: 3L at UT, doing TX BigLaw

[nebula666]

UVA is just fine for getting back to TX, especially if you have ties.