Harvard vs Chicago (30k) vs UVA (full ride) Forum

[lzack]

Hi everyone! I posted a couple weeks ago, but my scholarship information has changed (NYU taken off the table due to a very small scholarship offer, U Chicago now on the table with a surprisingly good offer), so I thought I'd give this another try.

Schools considering:
- Harvard (no aid)
- University of Chicago ($30k/year, have not negotiated)
- University of Virginia (full-ride, Dillard)

COA:
- Harvard ~$250k
- U Chicago ~$150k
- UVA ~$35k
(Rough estimates, let me know if these seem off)

Financing COA:
Entirely through loans and a small amount of savings (K-JD); no financial aid and no family help.

Location:
I'm from Arizona. DC would be perfect (esp for career goals) but I'd be happy in virtually any big city. I don't have significant ties anywhere I might want to work.

General career goals:
Prestigious/national PI. ACLU or something similar is the dream. My undergrad background is in reproductive justice and LGBTQ rights. I'd love to work on these issues / related human rights issues on a national (or international, if possible) scale.

LSAT/GPA:
171/4.0+
1 take

Edit: Added poll

[hcrimson2014]

UVA free is an amazing offer.

[manu6926]

...

[Nomo]

Harvard does have a much better LRAP - and could open many doors. At the same time, just the weight of having debt hanging over your head really can be crushing.

Harvard or UVA is tough. I don't see any reason to pick Chicago.

[transferror]

UVA free is an amazing offer.

Yeah, 35k for those job prospects is about as good as it gets.

[Workingtitle]

UVA. Harvard's LRAP program is very good..... but that doesn't matter if you only come out with 35K in debt!

Plus I think UVA will set you up well for D.C. Admittedly not as good as Harvard, but not worth another 200K either.

[iamgeorgebush]

for many (most?) people financing their law school education entirely through debt, UVA would be the pick here.

however, considering your career goals (DC; national, prestigious PI like the ACLU), would harvard be better? tough choice, definitely a risk v. reward thing. i feel for some prestigious PI (e.g., fed gov't), harvard would clearly be the choice (assuming you're set on that prestigious PI)...but i don't know how the prestige of harvard v. UVA figures into hiring for private, nonprofit PI like the ACLU.

eta: someone mentioned op not aiming for clerkships. well, if op wants to litigate big, landmark cases that change the face of civil rights (sounds like he/she might want to do this), then a clerkship would definitely help. and i don't think anyone would dispute that harvard yields benefits over uva in that realm.

[lzack]

however, considering your career goals (DC; national, prestigious PI like the ACLU), would harvard be better? tough choice, definitely a risk v. reward thing. i feel for some prestigious PI (e.g., fed gov't), harvard would clearly be the choice (assuming you're set on that prestigious PI)...but i don't know how the prestige of harvard v. UVA figures into hiring for private, nonprofit PI like the ACLU.

This sums the dilemma up really well. I would also be really happy with federal government work if I could get it. Harvard opens up all these doors -- for a lofty price. As bad as it sounds, I'm basically trying to assess if UVA is "good enough" to ultimately get me where I hope to be.

eta: someone mentioned op not aiming for clerkships. well, if op wants to litigate big, landmark cases that change the face of civil rights (sounds like he/she might want to do this), then a clerkship would definitely help. and i don't think anyone would dispute that harvard yields benefits over uva in that realm.

I am definitely very interested in clerking after graduation.

[Mal Reynolds]

eta: someone mentioned op not aiming for clerkships. well, if op wants to litigate big, landmark cases that change the face of civil rights (sounds like he/she might want to do this), then a clerkship would definitely help. and i don't think anyone would dispute that harvard yields benefits over uva in that realm.

Where are you getting this from? Do you have experience with this type of stuff?

[twenty]

I voted for UChi. If you end up in biglaw, you're in a marginally worse place than if you'd done UVA, and a significantly better place than Harvard. If you end up in prestigious PI, you're in about the same situation as H, just with a better LRAP at UChi.

edit> I'm really surprised to be the only person saying UChi...?

[lzack]

I voted for UChi. If you end up in biglaw, you're in a marginally worse place than if you'd done UVA, and a significantly better place than Harvard. If you end up in prestigious PI, you're in about the same situation as H, just with a better LRAP at UChi.

I can't imagine that I'd "end up" in biglaw. I'm fairly determined to do some sort of PI, even if I have to work somewhere less desirable and/or can't find a dream job on a national scale.

Is U Chicago's LRAP really better? I'm interested to know more about this. I thought Harvard's LIPP was the holy mother of all LRAPs because of its flexibility and its independence from government support.

[052220151]

I just did some rough calculations using the Gtown calculator. Assume that stuff changes, and you decide to do something else, or that the job you get isn't covered by LRAP. Would you rather pay ~450/month in payments or ~3k/month in payments? It might be a bit harder to get super prestigious PI from UVA, but you still have great prospects, they do pretty well with clerkships, and you don't have to live in squalor until your mid/late thirties (idk how old you are). Even if you end up getting a job that pays only 35k after LS, you can stay fully stocked on Coors Light and HBO and Sunday Ticket on 35k a year while on the standard 10-year repayment.

[lawschool22]

I think the price differential is just too great to choose Harvard here. Sure, it is marginally better for what you want to do. But it's not worth an extra $220k+ interest. A lot of your success will come down to grades, networking, professor recommendations, luck, etc. UVA does well in DC, and you could always go into biglaw then lateral into federal gov if your PI ambitions don't work out. If you go that route, minimal debt will be a godsend.

[twenty]

I voted for UChi. If you end up in biglaw, you're in a marginally worse place than if you'd done UVA, and a significantly better place than Harvard. If you end up in prestigious PI, you're in about the same situation as H, just with a better LRAP at UChi.

I can't imagine that I'd "end up" in biglaw. I'm fairly determined to do some sort of PI, even if I have to work somewhere less desirable and/or can't find a dream job on a national scale.

Is U Chicago's LRAP really better? I'm interested to know more about this. I thought Harvard's LIPP was the holy mother of all LRAPs because of its flexibility and its independence from government support.

For prestigious PI, Harvard only enjoys a minor advantage over UChicago. HYSCCN effectively have the same ability to get into prestigious PI groups, with a couple of notable exceptions that set Y apart from the rest (i.e, state department). I wrote a fairly long post here about how you'll pay more on HYS' LRAPs than CCNs. Now, granted, you probably won't make as much money as you would in those hypotheticals, thus making the distinction between H's LRAP and UChi's LRAP a bit more nebulous, but you'll still be paying less under UChi than Harvard.

[iamgeorgebush]

eta: someone mentioned op not aiming for clerkships. well, if op wants to litigate big, landmark cases that change the face of civil rights (sounds like he/she might want to do this), then a clerkship would definitely help. and i don't think anyone would dispute that harvard yields benefits over uva in that realm.

Where are you getting this from? Do you have experience with this type of stuff?

0L experience in biglaw with an eye toward the pro bono activities of the firm, as well as discussions with practicing attorneys about the value of clerkships. take that for what it is. i'm not asking anyone to trust my authority. FWIW, i've noticed that the litigators most involved w/ high profile pro bono cases at my firm tend to have done clerkships, and the higher profile the cases, the more prestigious the clerkships.

do you disagree with something i've said? if so, perhaps you might try to address the point(s) with which you disagree instead of questioning my "experience," which i haven't offered as support for a single claim i've made. dunno but that'd probably help op more than just attacking me. but if your posting history is any prediction, you'll probably choose not to add anything constructive to this discussion.

[The Dark Shepard]

twenty is our resident PI encyclopedia, so I'd take his word on this stuff

[zman]

UVA seems safe here.

[lzack]

.