Escaping the Region... of a Strong Regional Forum

[Glasseyes]

We all know every law school is regional to an extent (barring... Yale?). But when we look at the statistics of employment outcomes, we also know we're just measuring employment outcomes, not employment options. Self-selection is obviously a real thing, but I'm wondering how hard and/or stupid it is to attend a top 20 regional school if your goal is not to ultimately live in that area.

My situation: I've posted about this on here before, and you all spoke up and confirmed what I didn't want to hear. On paper, UCLA/USC make the most sense for me. I can come out of law school with minimal debt, and there are too many positives to ignore (i live in LA already, have a family, free granny nanny in town, have ties/connections here). Simply put, it would be much cheaper than any of the T14 options I'm considering. The problem arises because I specifically prefer not to end up in LA after I graduate. At the end of the day: employed in LA > unemployed elsewhere, but employed elsewhere trumps all. (One nice thing to note, I don't necessarily have to pursue biglaw in any of these markets if i opt to take the cheaper route.)

It seems like job placement outside the main region of a regional school is largely unknown and essentially unquantifiable. If I look at the newest stats on LST for UCLA, I can see that a couple people went to Colorado, and a few ended up in Virginia, while 75% of the class stayed in california. Self-selection obviously comes into play, but how hard is it really to get a job outside of your region? I do have some minor (very minor) ties to Portland, and some much more substantial family ties to Boston (grew up there, went to undergrad, parents live there), but if that's all I've got, am I basically doomed to rot in Los Angeles traffic for the rest of my life?

I don't care as much about my specific case as I do about this notion in general: how hard is it to escape your region, and when is it worth it to try?

[twenty]

I don't always get this weird nihilism that arises from people that evaluate the positives of LA (family, church, home, job, whatever) and then rag on how terrible it is that you have to stay there. If you hate LA that much, (which I wouldn't blame you if you did), then take on more debt and gun for NYC biglaw from a T14. Realize that if you go to UCLA/USC and you have no ties to speak of, you're going to very likely end up in the LA/OC area.

For what it's worth, anything up from Georgetown gives you anywhere from a 60% to 90% chance of getting biglaw. If you want to be in NYC/etc. badly enough to where you'll take on a bit more debt to do so, do that instead.

Barring that, re-take the LSAT and try again next cycle.

[Glasseyes]

I don't always get this weird nihilism that arises from people that evaluate the positives of LA (family, church, home, job, whatever) and then rag on how terrible it is that you have to stay there. If you hate LA that much, (which I wouldn't blame you if you did), then take on more debt and gun for NYC biglaw from a T14. Realize that if you go to UCLA/USC and you have no ties to speak of, you're going to very likely end up in the LA/OC area.

For what it's worth, anything up from Georgetown gives you anywhere from a 60% to 90% chance of getting biglaw. If you want to be in NYC/etc. badly enough to where you'll take on a bit more debt to do so, do that instead.

Barring that, re-take the LSAT and try again next cycle.

Living in LA in my 20s was one thing--it's a great place to fuck around. But for a lot reasons that don't need to be articulated because they're pretty obvious as accurate cultural stereotypes, I prefer not to raise a kid here.

[BigZuck]

Portland is a tiny legal market, why would they want a UCLA bro without ties when they have all the rinkrats who attended T14s that they could possibly want?

Boston has a smallish legal market too, plus Harvard is there and Boston bros with T14 creds. So why would they want a UCLA bro?

NYC just might be the only legal market who can care a little less about this stuff just because there are so many jobs (comparatively). But there really is no reason for firms in these random markets to care much about UCLA grads when they don't have a lot of spots to fill and they can fill them with kids from higher ranked schools and kids who are highly ranked from the local schools.

Go to UCLA if you want to work in LA. The firms who recruit there will be largely CA firms with a smattering of NY offices I'm sure. But if you want to target one of the parochial secondary markets you will really put yourself behind the 8 ball because firms won't come to OCI, you'll have to mass mail to try to get them to notice you, and you're far away for networking purposes.

I think if you want a non-LA market then you shouldn't go to UCLA. But as always, YOLO. I don't think it would be impossible to escape LA if you went to UCLA, but I think high grades, good hustle, and a fair amount of luck would all be necessary but not sufficient.

[Mack.Hambleton]

Retake for lower T14 with money

You'd probably need top 10% or better maybe to get NYC biglaw

[Clearly]

Why do you suppose they call them regionals?

[IAFG]

Would NYC really be better than LA for a family tho? After housing and childcare costs, enjoy your top ramen.

It depends on which t14.

[Glasseyes]

Would NYC really be better than LA for a family tho? After housing and childcare costs, enjoy your top ramen.

It depends on which t14.

No, my thoughts regarding NYC mirror yours. It might not be the same cultural abyss as LA, but it's stupendously more expensive and pretty terrifying for a young family. Not sure why others are mentioning NYC - presumably because that's the easiest place to relocate to if you happen to go to a regional school - but I was specifically talking about all the unicorn cities where we all dream of going (Portland, Seattle, Austin, Boston--all of which I have ties to besides Seattle).

[BigZuck]

Would NYC really be better than LA for a family tho? After housing and childcare costs, enjoy your top ramen.

It depends on which t14.

No, my thoughts regarding NYC mirror yours. It might not be the same cultural abyss as LA, but it's stupendously more expensive and pretty terrifying for a young family. Not sure why others are mentioning NYC - presumably because that's the easiest place to relocate to if you happen to go to a regional school - but I was specifically talking about all the unicorn cities where we all dream of going (Portland, Seattle, Austin, Boston--all of which I have ties to besides Seattle).

I just don't think those places are gonna happen without stronger ties and a better school. Silver lining- you could maybe move to one of those places and just get a non-lawyer job.

[IAFG]

Would NYC really be better than LA for a family tho? After housing and childcare costs, enjoy your top ramen.

It depends on which t14.

No, my thoughts regarding NYC mirror yours. It might not be the same cultural abyss as LA, but it's stupendously more expensive and pretty terrifying for a young family. Not sure why others are mentioning NYC - presumably because that's the easiest place to relocate to if you happen to go to a regional school - but I was specifically talking about all the unicorn cities where we all dream of going (Portland, Seattle, Austin, Boston--all of which I have ties to besides Seattle).

Portland probably wouldn't happen with much stronger ties. Same with Seattle frankly. Boston is your only likely hope. I say this as a native Oregonian and 2013 grad.

[Glasseyes]

Would NYC really be better than LA for a family tho? After housing and childcare costs, enjoy your top ramen.

It depends on which t14.

No, my thoughts regarding NYC mirror yours. It might not be the same cultural abyss as LA, but it's stupendously more expensive and pretty terrifying for a young family. Not sure why others are mentioning NYC - presumably because that's the easiest place to relocate to if you happen to go to a regional school - but I was specifically talking about all the unicorn cities where we all dream of going (Portland, Seattle, Austin, Boston--all of which I have ties to besides Seattle).

Portland probably wouldn't happen with much stronger ties. Same with Seattle frankly. Boston is your only likely hope. I say this as a native Oregonian and 2013 grad.

Good to know, and that's about what I expected. Thanks for your candor.

[IAFG]

Also, as a point of clarification, I mean from regional school or t10 or probably even t6. These are just highly sought-after, tiny markets.

[thejerseykid]

I'm a few days late to this thread but, I've got a somewhat similar question to that of the OP and maybe you guys could lend some perspective.

As the name would suggest, I'm from NJ but, for a few years now I've been interested in moving out West to CA. A friend of mine moved out there for college and since then he's done nothing but insist that I'd love it out there. Originally the plan was to get into a t14 out there like Stanford or Berkeley since those would leave me with the most options. My GPA was above the 75th percentile for each and I just needed the LSAT score. My first score wasn't good enough so I took a year off and retook but my second score actually ended up being a point less than the first one.

So I haven't had much luck getting into any t14 and the best schools I've managed are UCLA, USC, and GW each with decent scholarship offers in addition to the help I'd get from my parents. I feel like I'm in a somewhat unique position in that NJ doesn't really have a "strong" regional school (there's Rutgers and Seton Hall both of which are certainly regional but don't seem to be "strong" at least not by TLS standards).

That being said, I've spent some time in LA but certainly not enough to know whether I'd love living there so, if I moved out West and ended up hating it, do you think I'd be pretty hard pressed to get back to NJ with my ties? I'm thinking I might be screwed regardless of the choice I make but, again, I'm curious to get your perspectives.

[Mack.Hambleton]

I'm a few days late to this thread but, I've got a somewhat similar question to that of the OP and maybe you guys could lend some perspective.

As the name would suggest, I'm from NJ but, for a few years now I've been interested in moving out West to CA. A friend of mine moved out there for college and since then he's done nothing but insist that I'd love it out there. Originally the plan was to get into a t14 out there like Stanford or Berkeley since those would leave me with the most options. My GPA was above the 75th percentile for each and I just needed the LSAT score. My first score wasn't good enough so I took a year off and retook but my second score actually ended up being a point less than the first one.

So I haven't had much luck getting into any t14 and the best schools I've managed are UCLA, USC, and GW each with decent scholarship offers in addition to the help I'd get from my parents. I feel like I'm in a somewhat unique position in that NJ doesn't really have a "strong" regional school (there's Rutgers and Seton Hall both of which are certainly regional but don't seem to be "strong" at least not by TLS standards).

That being said, I've spent some time in LA but certainly not enough to know whether I'd love living there so, if I moved out West and ended up hating it, do you think I'd be pretty hard pressed to get back to NJ with my ties? I'm thinking I might be screwed regardless of the choice I make but, again, I'm curious to get your perspectives.

if you've got a 3.9+ you need to retake again

[californiauser]

UCLA doesn't place that great in LA. Why would it place well in another region?

[thejerseykid]

I'm a few days late to this thread but, I've got a somewhat similar question to that of the OP and maybe you guys could lend some perspective.

As the name would suggest, I'm from NJ but, for a few years now I've been interested in moving out West to CA. A friend of mine moved out there for college and since then he's done nothing but insist that I'd love it out there. Originally the plan was to get into a t14 out there like Stanford or Berkeley since those would leave me with the most options. My GPA was above the 75th percentile for each and I just needed the LSAT score. My first score wasn't good enough so I took a year off and retook but my second score actually ended up being a point less than the first one.

So I haven't had much luck getting into any t14 and the best schools I've managed are UCLA, USC, and GW each with decent scholarship offers in addition to the help I'd get from my parents. I feel like I'm in a somewhat unique position in that NJ doesn't really have a "strong" regional school (there's Rutgers and Seton Hall both of which are certainly regional but don't seem to be "strong" at least not by TLS standards).

That being said, I've spent some time in LA but certainly not enough to know whether I'd love living there so, if I moved out West and ended up hating it, do you think I'd be pretty hard pressed to get back to NJ with my ties? I'm thinking I might be screwed regardless of the choice I make but, again, I'm curious to get your perspectives.

if you've got a 3.9+ you need to retake again

Not sure how much better I could do a third time but, I'm down for it.

UCLA doesn't place that great in LA. Why would it place well in another region?

Hahaha fair enough. I guess at this point I'm not really sure what places well in NJ. Seems the only statistics LST has on this are for Rutgers, Seton Hall and few other lower tiered schools which all carry the risk of graduating with no job so I'm kind of left in the dark a bit. I probably came off sounding a bit more absurd than I intended to with this post but, hey, it happens.