UVA ($$$$) vs Harvard ($$) vs Chicago ($$$) Forum

[sasquatchsam]

So I finally get to make one of these threads

My wife will be working while I am in school to help cover the COA wherever we go so that is why the numbers might be a little funny. We also have around $25,000 equity in in our home and about $10,000 in a retirement account.

Visited UVA and loved the area and the school

We were less impressed with Harvard but I think we could manage to live there if we needed to.

We haven't visited Chicago but I am hoping I might be able to get a Ruby by negotiating which would probably make it #1 on my list.

-The schools you are considering: UVA, HLS, and Chicago

-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each.

UVA: Dillard Scholarship (Full Tuition) + Spousal Income ($40,000/year) + SA Income ($30,000) + $35,000 current net worth - $90,000 COL

= $95,000 net worth at graduation

Harvard is a really complicated calculation because of need based aid but estimating a $40,000 COL, tuition to total $170,000 and my wife making $40,000/year (capped because of need based aid)....

= -$35,000 net worth at graduation

Chicago: $90,000 (pre-negotiation) + $50,000/year spousal income + $30,000 SA Income + $35,000 current net worth - $170,000 in tuition - $35,000/yr COL

= $30,000 net worth at graduation

-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)

My wife and I are from the PNW and would like to go back and work in the small market where my wife and I currently live and went to school. I have a little over three years of work experience as a paralegal here but want to move from government to a regional office of a large firm.

-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
3.9x/173
-How many times you have taken the LSAT: Once...I actually loved it but I doubt retaking is going to help me much.

[goldenflash19]

In terms of getting you back to PNW, Harvard definitely would be the worth the extra 60k over UVA to me. To graduate in the black with a HLS degree and your goals is a great situation. I'm voting Harvard for now.

If you're able to get a Ruby, though, I would go with that for sure.

[sasquatchsam]

It would actually be $35,000 in debt at HLS the - sign is kind of hard to see.

[Winston1984]

In terms of getting you back to PNW, Harvard definitely would be the worth the extra 60k over UVA to me. To graduate in the black with a HLS degree and your goals is a great situation. I'm voting Harvard for now.

If you're able to get a Ruby, though, I would go with that for sure.

If I'm reading this correctly, this looks like he would be in the red. So the difference would be approximately $130k. I would check with large firms in the area you want to be in, and see how UVA grads do. That's too big of a difference for me to take Harvard, but if it gives you an almost guarantee in your market vs. uncertainty with a UVA degree it may be worth it. A Ruby takes UVA out of the running IMO.

[goldenflash19]

It would actually be $35,000 in debt at HLS the - sign is kind of hard to see.

Oh, sorry! Based off what I've read about PNW in the legal employment forum, I would still go with Harvard honestly. It sounds like an extremely tough market to crack, and 35k debt would be worth the added security to me.

Ruby still would be the best option, IMO

[swampman]

It would actually be $35,000 in debt at HLS the - sign is kind of hard to see.

I missed that at first, but still would say Harvard. 35k is not too painful to pay off with two incomes.
I would vote UVA w/ Dillard if you wanted to stay on the East coast, but even with strong ties I would be a little worried about UVA's lack of network and reputation in the PNW.

[sasquatchsam]

It would actually be $35,000 in debt at HLS the - sign is kind of hard to see.

I missed that at first, but still would say Harvard. 35k is not too painful to pay off with two incomes.
I would vote UVA w/ Dillard if you wanted to stay on the East coast, but even with strong ties I would be a little worried about UVA's lack of network and reputation in the PNW.

Yes, this worried me a little as well regarding reputation and network. However, after talking with Harvard and UVA grads working here, it seems like UVA commands a lot of respect as a top school here but not on the same level as HLS. It is probably worth noting that my wife and I both greatly prefer Charlottesville to Cambridge. Also, my wife's job would be a dream job for her at UVA but she would probably have to work at a place she wouldn't enjoy as much if we go somewhere else.

[Winston1984]

Question OP, would you be absolutely devastated if you had to take a job in NY/DC instead of PNW? Your wife's situation pushes UVA more, and if you are okay with NY/DC, I'd take UVA.

[sasquatchsam]

Question OP, would you be absolutely devastated if you had to take a job in NY/DC instead of PNW? Your wife's situation pushes UVA more, and if you are okay with NY/DC, I'd take UVA.

I would probably be ok with DC but I don't think my wife would be. We both want to have a family after I graduate so we really really want to be close to our families. They both live in the same city we live in now.

If it doesn't work out to have a firm job, I will probably work as a Deputy Prosecutor where I work right now or work for one of the attorneys I know in a small firm. I am ok making $40,000/year. Prestige would be nice but I am willing to sacrifice it for location.

[swampman]

Yes, this worried me a little as well regarding reputation and network. However, after talking with Harvard and UVA grads working here, it seems like UVA commands a lot of respect as a top school here but not on the same level as HLS. It is probably worth noting that my wife and I both greatly prefer Charlottesville to Cambridge. Also, my wife's job would be a dream job for her at UVA but she would probably have to work at a place she wouldn't enjoy as much if we go somewhere else.

I'm surprised and happy to hear that UVA has a presence there. Given those factors it's hard to see how Harvard is worth the extra 135k. Hope to see you in Charlottesville!

[sasquatchsam]

Thanks everyone for your input. I think it is probably going to come down to whether or not my wife gets the job she wants at UVA (she is supposed to hear back this week). I think this is my current rank of our options. If anyone disagrees though, speak up

1. UVA with wife getting her dream job
2. Chicago (if I can get them to offer me a Ruby and might jump to the top depending on how my wife feels about it)
3. HLS

[twenty]

Harvard by a landslide if you absolutely must go back to PNW once you graduate. Chicago by a landslide if you get the Ruby. UVA by a landslide if neither of those are true.

[helmsleyB]

Voted UVA.

Only concern I'd have is around grades. Law school grades are hard to predict. At HLS it's a bit easier to hang out in the middle of the pack and still get a solid gig.
Sounds like UVA is still highly respected in the PNW (as it should be), and you've still got great chances given its a smaller market and you have strong ties to the area. You just run the risk that, if it turns out you suck at 1L exams (speaking as a jaded 3L who did suck at those godawful issue-spotting races), your transcript might get a little more scrutiny comin' out of UVA than HLS.

But you prolly knew that, and the financial/lifestyle/wifey factors really seem to weigh in favor of UVA.
HLS a strong second.
UChi is made of sadness.