WUSTL ($120k) v USC ($122k) v UT ($30k) for Public Defense Forum

[n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t]

I had made a thread a few weeks ago asking between USC/UT, but my offers have since been increased, and I wanted to reframe the question with the perspective of becoming a public defender. I apologize if making a second thread is discouraged, but few people read the 20th+ post of a thread that references new information.

Stats: 3.5x/168; took LSAT once.

Projected Cost of Attendance
WUSTL: $100,000
USC: $110,000
UT: $120,000

How financing: savings, family. Zero debt at graduation.

Location: From all over US, mostly NY/NV/PA/TX. I haven't lived in one place for longer than six years, whatever that means. I'd prefer to work wherever the biggest capital/terrorism/felony drug cases take place (NY/CA/TX--others?).

Career: I want to clerk/become a public defender out of school, and to be a federal or a state appellate defender for the longer term. I am concerned because only one (Dallas) TX county hires fresh grads for its PD office, the CA PD market (esp LA) is beset by hiring freezes, and I have no idea to which PD offices WUSTL feeds.

I am fluent in Spanish and an Asian male (if, for some reason, that qualifies as URM for hiring purposes). I'd prefer to put all my eggs into the metaphorical PD basket, but if I had to take another job, I'd prefer it be in an area (criminal/immigration/etc.) that allows me to lateral into a PD office in a few years. If anybody could give advice specific to my goals, it would be appreciated.

[cron1834]

I don't know jack about PD hiring, but of these three options I like UT best. It has the best overall employment % and it's the only state of the three in which you have ties. USC is primarily a corporate law program (4% public service score) and the CA public sector is in a world of hurt. WUSTL may be reasonable, but others with more insight into PD work will have to share.

[McAvoy]

Plus, Austin.

[WokeUpInACar]

UT for sure.

[n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t]

My biggest issue with UT is that there is no local PD office in Austin and only Dallas hires fresh grads. Do people extern at the federal defender office throughout the year and spend their summers in Dallas and somewhere out of state? I would hate to have to become a prosecutor for a few years if there are no other reasonable entry-level career paths.

[transferror]

For PD, with all of these schools being relatively even in terms of rank/prestige/big regionals, I don't know that it matters which you attend. Add in unpredictability of PD hiring and a smaller emphasis on grades and you have a black box. Choose the school you like most. As other posters have mentioned, you might want to do research on which school is near PD's offices that hire larger numbers of fresh grads.

[McAvoy]

Plus, you might not want to be a PD after you actually start law school and get your feet wet. IMO, go to the best school for the best price in the best area for you, whatever that is.

[timbs4339]

Probably UT. If you want to do appellate work you'll need to clerk first, if you want to do state appellate it'll need to be in the state you want to work.

[n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t]

Apparently even Dallas County does not hire fresh PDs, preferring a year or two of experience instead. Therefore, if I go to UT, like the vast majority of poll respondents advise, I would be FORCED to leave the state to be a PD, at least for a few years post-graduation in order to gain the relevant experience to return to Texas. Either that or become a prosecutor, and I'd rather quit law than threaten people for nonviolent drug offenses (something with which misdemeanor prosecutors are familiar).

I feel like the only reason people suggest UT is because its better employment statistics provide a slightly better safety net should the PD route not work out. That, of course, is a valid line of reasoning. I would rather, however, develop an aggressive plan that tries to make me more competitive than other job applicants instead of a defensive plan that tries to mitigate losses. I will have no debt and the luxury of volunteering post-bar, which I am guessing will make me fairly competitive (???).

Given that I have to leave TX to be a PD for the first few years of practice, do people still believe that UT is the best choice?

[n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t]

Bump to see if anybody has any new opinions on my situation before the deposit deadline.

[McAvoy]

End of the day it doesn't matter what we think. None of these are "bad" options, as you'll graduate with no debt; it's your life, do what'll make you happy.

You seem to be making lots of reasons to not do Austin, so maybe don't do that.

[n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t]

Haha that's fair. I guess I am basically wondering how easy it is to become a PD from UT. If it's relatively easy to clerk for the Court of Criminal Appeals (or lower), and then work in Harris/Dallas/Tarrant/Travis/Bexar County as a PD, then I'd go in a heartbeat. If I have to leave the state to work as a PD, however, then UT becomes far less appealing. Maybe I am just starved for anecdotes? Attention?

[McAvoy]

If you prefer Texas all other things equal but are hung up on that point, here are two things: hit up the ask a UT student thread in the "ask a law student" forum, then contact the UT career services office and ask for a phone meeting with their PI person, and ask them if they can refer to you any current 2/3Ls who are PD gunners.

[n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t]

If you prefer Texas all other things equal but are hung up on that point, here are two things: hit up the ask a UT student thread in the "ask a law student" forum, then contact the UT career services office and ask for a phone meeting with their PI person, and ask them if they can refer to you any current 2/3Ls who are PD gunners.

I made a post in the "ask a UT student," but that has had no replies for over a week. I called the CSO and they were the ones that told me that PD gunners usually go out of state (NOLA, NYC, CO, etc.); anecdotes on the clerkship route were nonexistent.

Great idea on asking them to get me in touch with current 2/3Ls though; those students would certainly have the most germane perspective.

[cron1834]

I'll repeat that USC has very few PI folks and the CA public sector is a shambles. Unless I'm missing some expert local knowledge, that seems like a poor fit.

I would decide between UT and WUSTL based on preferred geography (You down with the Midwest? Willing to figure out how to make TX work, eventually?) and post-grad fellowship/job opportunities. Go post about this in the "So, you want to do PI" thread ... I think at least one of those bros is from WUSTL, and one is familiar with TX.