PRICEY T10 degree vs. "FREE" STATE SCHOOL degree Forum

[mydasmarie]

DUKE (65k scholly, will take out the rest on PLUS loans which would be a maximum of about 200k if i live to the max with the most expensive apartment, food, transportation, etc ----as determined by estimated cost of attendance) NOTE NO STIP ON SCHOLLY

RUTGERS NEWARK (full tuition scholly including fees and stipend for books, along with the fact that I will commute from home and can rely on family for food expenses for the duration of law school) NOTE NO STIP ON SCHOLLY

where do i want to work and live: northeast, NJ/NY area
interest: varied, include health law, immigration law, and maybe even "big law" if I go to Duke

please give advice based on this info: overall the issue is take on a crap-load of debt for a prestigious degree that brings along excellent opportunities or play it safe with the state school (listed as one of USNR top ten return on investments) that will not be respected outside of NJ.

[justonemoregame]

I like Rutgers here; you have ties, want to live there, and can graduate debt-free - that's the ideal situation. Also, doesn't RU have much lower class sizes these days - I think that's a bonus.

[Paul Campos]

No debt plus mediocre to bad job prospects v. $200K debt plus good to excellent job prospects is a straightforward case of how much and what sort of risk you're willing to tolerate. Each choice is risky in different ways, and nobody can tell you which risk (if either) is the better one for you to take.

Don't pay any attention to the USN list of best returns on investment, which is statistical nonsense http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/201 ... statistics.

[swampman]

About 50% of Rutgers-Newark grads get jobs as lawyers, and those are virtually all low-paying jobs. That's a "good return on investment" only if you're considering your investment to be 0.

If you go to Duke you will essentially have no choice but Biglaw, though you will have a relatively good chance of getting it, and you will be repaying your debt for a long time.

[mtn663]

for the best responses you should provide all the information listed here: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=206299

personally I'm wondering:

1) numbers? times taken LSAT?
2) total COA?
3) any in-between options? (Fordham, BC/BU, GULC, GW)

the problem with NJ schools is that their employment outcomes are obscured by the huge number of low-level, one-year state clerkships their grads do after graduation; this is specifically a NJ thing. not really clear what outcomes are for those people long-term. therefore the R-N overall employment % looks better than it might be in reality (this is 30% of the R-N class of 2012, almost 25% in 2013).

if you're (1) from NJ (especially if you could potentially live at home), (2) are totally fine with no big firm work and (3) are totally fine with staying in NJ, then R-N looks better. your goals are very non-specific so it's hard to say much more.

[mtn663]

About 50% of Rutgers-Newark grads get jobs as lawyers, and those are virtually all low-paying jobs.

it's 32% not counting the clerkships!

[Mack.Hambleton]

About 50% of Rutgers-Newark grads get jobs as lawyers, and those are virtually all low-paying jobs. That's a "good return on investment" only if you're considering your investment to be 0.

If you go to Duke you will essentially have no choice but Biglaw, though you will have a relatively good chance of getting it, and you will be repaying your debt for a long time.

This, try to get a full scholly at somwhere in between these two extremes in your desired location. Something like Fordham would be ideal I think

[mydasmarie]

About 50% of Rutgers-Newark grads get jobs as lawyers, and those are virtually all low-paying jobs. That's a "good return on investment" only if you're considering your investment to be 0.

If you go to Duke you will essentially have no choice but Biglaw, though you will have a relatively good chance of getting it, and you will be repaying your debt for a long time.

This, try to get a full scholly at somwhere in between these two extremes in your desired location. Something like Fordham would be ideal I think

I actually did apply to Fordham but haven't heard back. I will contact their office tomorrow as deposit deadlines are coming up

[mydasmarie]

for the best responses you should provide all the information listed here: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=206299

personally I'm wondering:

1) numbers? times taken LSAT?
2) total COA?
3) any in-between options? (Fordham, BC/BU, GULC, GW)

the problem with NJ schools is that their employment outcomes are obscured by the huge number of low-level, one-year state clerkships their grads do after graduation; this is specifically a NJ thing. not really clear what outcomes are for those people long-term. therefore the R-N overall employment % looks better than it might be in reality (this is 30% of the R-N class of 2012, almost 25% in 2013).

if you're (1) from NJ (especially if you could potentially live at home), (2) are totally fine with no big firm work and (3) are totally fine with staying in NJ, then R-N looks better. your goals are very non-specific so it's hard to say much more.

I had no idea about the clerkships factoring into job statistics used by RN!
also, if it helps with RU-N I got into a program that tailors to the needs of URM (me) including study groups and access to Journal work etc.

LSAT: 163, gpa 3.8 -- cannot retake LSAT
as far as total COA, the numbers i put above are pretty much what I can supply right now. the DUKE debt financed COA is around 252,000 without discount, but minus the 65k but along with some room for tuition inflation im looking at 200k in debt. at RU my tuition and feeds and books would be completely covered by my award. I would essentially just pay for misc/ personal expenses such as gas as I will be commuting from home {parent's}

[ronanOgara]

for the best responses you should provide all the information listed here: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=206299

personally I'm wondering:

1) numbers? times taken LSAT?
2) total COA?
3) any in-between options? (Fordham, BC/BU, GULC, GW)

the problem with NJ schools is that their employment outcomes are obscured by the huge number of low-level, one-year state clerkships their grads do after graduation; this is specifically a NJ thing. not really clear what outcomes are for those people long-term. therefore the R-N overall employment % looks better than it might be in reality (this is 30% of the R-N class of 2012, almost 25% in 2013).

if you're (1) from NJ (especially if you could potentially live at home), (2) are totally fine with no big firm work and (3) are totally fine with staying in NJ, then R-N looks better. your goals are very non-specific so it's hard to say much more.

I had no idea about the clerkships factoring into job statistics used by RN!
also, if it helps with RU-N I got into a program that tailors to the needs of URM (me) including study groups and access to Journal work etc.

LSAT: 163, gpa 3.8 -- cannot retake LSAT
as far as total COA, the numbers i put above are pretty much what I can supply right now. the DUKE debt financed COA is around 252,000 without discount, but minus the 65k but along with some room for tuition inflation im looking at 200k in debt. at RU my tuition and feeds and books would be completely covered by my award. I would essentially just pay for misc/ personal expenses such as gas as I will be commuting from home {parent's}

And why can you not retake?

[swampman]

Retake.

[mtn663]

if you have a retake left, you really should, especially since URM. if you have used all three, when can you take again? note these outcomes with slightly higher LSAT (and I lowballed the GPA): http://mylsn.info/emv47p/

if no way we can get you to retake, then this is the best possible financial situation to attend R-N since essentially zero debt, but there's still the opportunity cost of three years, and you have to be quite comfortable with the likely outcome of small law and possibility of no law job at all.

again, no options between R-N and Duke?

[transferror]

Also consider that by the end of next year, Rutgers-Newark and Rutgers-Camden are "merging" into Rutgers Law. There will remain two independent campuses, but who knows what will happen with the composition of LR and some of the other programs. It could be a good thing as far as the campuses sharing resources, or it could be a clusterfuck.

I still vote free ride, though.

[BigZuck]

Retake cuz URM status+it's the right thing to do

[mydasmarie]

for the best responses you should provide all the information listed here: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=206299

personally I'm wondering:

1) numbers? times taken LSAT?
2) total COA?
3) any in-between options? (Fordham, BC/BU, GULC, GW)

the problem with NJ schools is that their employment outcomes are obscured by the huge number of low-level, one-year state clerkships their grads do after graduation; this is specifically a NJ thing. not really clear what outcomes are for those people long-term. therefore the R-N overall employment % looks better than it might be in reality (this is 30% of the R-N class of 2012, almost 25% in 2013).

if you're (1) from NJ (especially if you could potentially live at home), (2) are totally fine with no big firm work and (3) are totally fine with staying in NJ, then R-N looks better. your goals are very non-specific so it's hard to say much more.

I had no idea about the clerkships factoring into job statistics used by RN!
also, if it helps with RU-N I got into a program that tailors to the needs of URM (me) including study groups and access to Journal work etc.

LSAT: 163, gpa 3.8 -- cannot retake LSAT
as far as total COA, the numbers i put above are pretty much what I can supply right now. the DUKE debt financed COA is around 252,000 without discount, but minus the 65k but along with some room for tuition inflation im looking at 200k in debt. at RU my tuition and feeds and books would be completely covered by my award. I would essentially just pay for misc/ personal expenses such as gas as I will be commuting from home {parent's}

And why can you not retake?

i took the LSAT twice, after both having taken a LSAT prep course (which i found to be so-so) and studying on my own. I truly dedicated my all to the exam and do not believe I can do any better. I scored within this range, with my highest score ever being a 165.

[WahooLaw24]

I can tell you that I was in a similar situation to you (NJ resident wanting to ultimately go home or to NY, full ride at some of the NJ schools) and chose UVA at a similar scholarship to what Duke is offering you. No regrets whatsoever, but to be fair 1) I had a great first semester so it's easier to say I made a good choice now and 2) I haven't had to start paying back loans yet.

Feel free to PM me with any questions.