UVA vs Duke ($) vs Penn Law?

[sweebez]

I'm not certain what area of law I'd like to practice, but I'm leaning toward BigLaw at present. I have 3.6/170, and I'm not planning on retaking the LSAT. My background is tech and business consulting, and I'd like to get into a nice New York City firm for at least a few years. I have offers from UVA, Duke, and Penn, and Duke is offering a scholarship of $60,000 over three years. I'm not fussy about location/setting; I'd just like to make a few friends, grow into my legal role, and get the education and hopefully connections for me to find success.

1. What factors would you consider when weighing the three schools?
2. What are your impressions about each school's strengths/weaknesses/stereotypes? What kind of person chooses each?
3. Assuming personal savings of $20,000, what weight would you give duke's scholarship?

[jbagelboy]

1. Employment, cost, target market
2. Penn is best for NY large firms, UVA arguably best for DC/gov, Duke strong in both, also opens up southern markets if you have ties.
3. Same weight as if 0 savings since the savings apply equally to all schools.

I voted Duke.

[sweebez]

Interesting. When I ask people in person they have tended toward UVA for being "a relaxed scholarly/collegial atmosphere with a great network" or Penn for being "an ivy in a big city with strong corporate law ties". I never know where to put duke on that axis, so thanks for your opinion!

[Law Sauce]

I'd go to Duke. The three have close enough NY biglaw placement to justify picking the cheapest. good luck

[BigLawer]

They are peer schools. Go to whichever one you can leave with the least amount of debt. That would be Duke here (which is why it has 100% of the votes).

If you would prefer Penn or UVA - try to get them to match the scholarship.

[Otunga]

Wanting NYC biglaw and no other markets specifically favors Duke, simply because it's the cheapest choice. 80k off Duke should end up way more affordable than 20k off Penn. While Penn statistically gives you the best chance at NYC biglaw, I wouldn't say it's worth over 100k more than Duke in this context.

I don't think Penn has a whole lot of lay prestige, and neither does UVA. Maybe Duke has the most of it. Not that it plays into the choice you make. Additionally, I believe Duke has a similar "collegial" reputation to UVA's, and if anything, Duke's smaller class size ought to be more conducive to that rep.

[jbagelboy]

Interesting. When I ask people in person they have tended toward UVA for being "a relaxed scholarly/collegial atmosphere with a great network" or Penn for being "an ivy in a big city with strong corporate law ties". I never know where to put duke on that axis, so thanks for your opinion!

Yea, I mean those characterizations are fine but its basically window dressing. Your choice should not hinge on empty verbiage like "collegiality." All T14 schools have strong corporate ties. Big metropole v. Small College town is a valid lifestyle consideration, but only at near equal cost.

[jbagelboy]

Wanting NYC biglaw and no other markets specifically favors Duke, simply because it's the cheapest choice. 80k off Duke should end up way more affordable than 20k off Penn. While Penn statistically gives you the best chance at NYC biglaw, I wouldn't say it's worth over 100k more than Duke in this context.

I don't think Penn has a whole lot of lay prestige, and neither does UVA. Maybe Duke has the most of it. Not that it plays into the choice you make. Additionally, I believe Duke has a similar "collegial" reputation to UVA's, and if anything, Duke's smaller class size ought to be more conducive to that rep.

Wut? Seriously? Where have you been living/what "lay" do you interact with? UPenn has way more cachet than Duke or UVA in the global public imagination. We're talking about "prestige" not basketball.

[Law Sauce]

Wanting NYC biglaw and no other markets specifically favors Duke, simply because it's the cheapest choice. 80k off Duke should end up way more affordable than 20k off Penn. While Penn statistically gives you the best chance at NYC biglaw, I wouldn't say it's worth over 100k more than Duke in this context.

I don't think Penn has a whole lot of lay prestige, and neither does UVA. Maybe Duke has the most of it. Not that it plays into the choice you make. Additionally, I believe Duke has a similar "collegial" reputation to UVA's, and if anything, Duke's smaller class size ought to be more conducive to that rep.

Wut? Seriously? Where have you been living/what "lay" do you interact with? UPenn has way more cachet than Duke or UVA in the global public imagination. We're talking about "prestige" not basketball.

Different people have different experiences with lay prestige because it is so subjective (and dependent on who you know/where you grew up etc.). Bottom line is that they are all prestigious.

[Otunga]

Wanting NYC biglaw and no other markets specifically favors Duke, simply because it's the cheapest choice. 80k off Duke should end up way more affordable than 20k off Penn. While Penn statistically gives you the best chance at NYC biglaw, I wouldn't say it's worth over 100k more than Duke in this context.

I don't think Penn has a whole lot of lay prestige, and neither does UVA. Maybe Duke has the most of it. Not that it plays into the choice you make. Additionally, I believe Duke has a similar "collegial" reputation to UVA's, and if anything, Duke's smaller class size ought to be more conducive to that rep.

Wut? Seriously? Where have you been living/what "lay" do you interact with? UPenn has way more cachet than Duke or UVA in the global public imagination. We're talking about "prestige" not basketball.

Heard a local lawyer claim BC has a better law school than Harvard. Your post reminds me that discussion of lay prestige often has to be taken with a grain of salt. I simply haven't gotten an indication from lay people here that Penn is prestigious. If anything it's associated with Penn State (guessing that's common in a lot of areas), whereas Duke gets respect.

[BigZuck]

The only thing that matters here is cost. Enjoy Duke.

[monsterman]

Accidentally voted Penn. I meant Duke!! Also, congrats

[lawschool22]

Duke no question here. Not sure why you even have other votes from people lol

[OutCold]

I had almost the same scholarship offer from Duke and used it to get about half from Penn. That was a few years ago, but I just drove up and sat down with the financial aid guy. Tell him you really want to go to Penn but you just can't justify it with the offer from Duke unless Penn gives you something.

[sweebez]

Was that half of duke's amount, or half of tuition? It looks like the forum has a pretty strong opinion, but I have a hard time believing these schools are so fungible.

[BigZuck]

Was that half of duke's amount, or half of tuition? It looks like the forum has a pretty strong opinion, but I have a hard time believing these schools are so fungible.

What do you mean? You don't think they're peers?

Even if Penn is better, no way is it 50K better

[jbagelboy]

Was that half of duke's amount, or half of tuition? It looks like the forum has a pretty strong opinion, but I have a hard time believing these schools are so fungible.

What do you mean? You don't think they're peers?

Even if Penn is better, no way is it 50K better

Eh. Idk.

[lawschool22]

Was that half of duke's amount, or half of tuition? It looks like the forum has a pretty strong opinion, but I have a hard time believing these schools are so fungible.

What do you mean? You don't think they're peers?

Even if Penn is better, no way is it 50K better

Eh. Idk.

It's a close call, but I would probably take Duke over Penn for $50k. Although this is right around the number where it is close. Any less and you probably can take Penn, any more and you feel pretty good about taking Duke.

[aboutmydaylight]

It seems like schools should be much more willing to negotiate smaller amounts regardless of rankings/peer schools. What's 30k to a school that knows you're going to matriculate? Its a small price to pay.

[envisciguy]

I'd pick Duke here since it's cheapest, but if you're seriously interested in UVA or Penn, it can't hurt to try to negotiate some money from them based on your Duke offer.

[sweebez]

Great advice all around. I'll talk to the admissions folks this week. Best of luck to everyone else!

[Nomo]

Duke. But, please figure out how much you're going to borrow including all COA, 3 yrs of tuition increases, loan origination fees, interest accruing during school, and during the 6 months b/w graduation and start of a firm job. Plug your loans into a loan calculator and see what your payment will be. Then look at what you're take-home pay will be after federal, state, and city (if NY) taxes and medicare and SS taxes. Now discount the possibility you don't land biglaw.

I think you'll find that UVA and Penn are not justifiable at sticker. But, that's for you to decide. Even Duke might not be justifiable. Just please do the calculations before you go.

[rpupkin]

These are peer schools. If one is significantly cheaper than the other (and $60K counts as significant), go to the cheaper one.