Columbia (sticker) vs re-applying Forum

[Gucci Mane]

update 5/14: got $70k from CLS but decided not to attend, thanks for the advice everyone.

-The schools you are considering:
Columbia

-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each.
$200k+

-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
$30k in savings, ~$100k from family, remainder in loans

-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
Somewhere in the southeast

-Your general career goals
Biglaw then open own practice

-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
176/3.9x

-How many times you have taken the LSAT
Once



I really need help here. I applied to law school thinking I would get some $$ from CCN or get into Harvard based purely on numbers. Unfortunately, neither of those things happened. I'm now wondering about the merits of waiting another year and applying again, versus just attending Columbia and paying sticker (minus whatever I get for need-based aid, which will likely be minimal).

The problem is, I don't think my application will be particularly stronger a year from now. The only thing is that I would be applying with 2 years of post-graduation work experience instead of one, and maybe that could be helpful since I'm younger than most law school applicants. However, I make very little at my current job, so the opportunity cost of delaying law school for a year would be quite high. I'm also very worried that if I wait a year, I'd just end up with the same results or worse.

Thoughts? Thanks in advance.

[banjo]

I'd reapply next year. Have someone look over your PS and think very seriously about your references--are all of them positive? Your age can also make a small difference, so another year of WE might help. Finally, spend some time volunteering or doing something else that will flesh out your resume.

[Nelson]

Something seems wrong with your app for these to be your results. Did you go to a no-name UG? Have C&F problems? Truly poor recs/essays?

Is your job now really bad (like managing a 7-11 bad)? If it's not, stay another year and re-blanket the T14 next cycle.

[Gucci Mane]

Definitely had bad recs, I didn't really get to know any professors when I was in undergrad, so they're probably just generic templates. Undergrad is a state flagship, but its not top 50 or anything.

I currently work at a small startup, I have a fairly prestigious title but get paid almost nothing in terms of actual money, and its very likely the equity they gave me will also be worthless within several years. I'm thinking that my complete lack of softs and unremarkable work experience is what hurt me, but that's really stuff I won't be able to change if I re-apply.

[Otunga]

It doesn't appear that re-applying would be beneficial. It's not like you're going into a grad program and can add a soft, get improved letters, and so on. I suppose a solid full-time job could help the applications.

If you have mid-lower t14 options with scholarships, I'd pick one of those schools, because then with the money you have, you could use a negligible amount of loans. But Columbia sticker - over 100k is a defensible choice.

[daleearnhardt123]

I would say that not only can a "high profile" position at a start-up be marketable for LS admissions purposes, but it can be useful for acquiring a biglaw position as well. Dont underestimate it.

Did you apply late in the cycle this year? If i were you I'd try again as early as possible next year. Ya, the recommendation letters are probably not gonna get better, but so what. Those are less of a factor than you think anyways. Get your apps in as early as possible and try to spend your summer focusing on how to write a baller PS. the start-up experience, by the way, will only help you.

[milkandcheerios]

Wait for your financial aid from CLS. I know they say "need based only" but common wisdom says that they actually do consider merit outside of Hamiltons and Butlers. Just because you didn't get a named scholarship, it doesn't mean you'll be paying sticker, and with your numbers, I really doubt you wouldn't get any money.

[Gucci Mane]

Thanks for the responses.

It doesn't appear that re-applying would be beneficial. It's not like you're going into a grad program and can add a soft, get improved letters, and so on. I suppose a solid full-time job could help the applications.

If you have mid-lower t14 options with scholarships, I'd pick one of those schools, because then with the money you have, you could use a negligible amount of loans. But Columbia sticker - over 100k is a defensible choice.

No scholarships from any other T14s, unfortunately.

I would say that not only can a "high profile" position at a start-up be marketable for LS admissions purposes, but it can be useful for acquiring a biglaw position as well. Dont underestimate it.

Did you apply late in the cycle this year? If i were you I'd try again as early as possible next year. Ya, the recommendation letters are probably not gonna get better, but so what. Those are less of a factor than you think anyways. Get your apps in as early as possible and try to spend your summer focusing on how to write a baller PS. the start-up experience, by the way, will only help you.

I applied a bit late, December. The startup thing sounds good (and some of the schools that interviewed me sounded impressed), but it didn't really help me out this year. Focusing on reworking my PS is a good idea though.

Wait for your financial aid from CLS. I know they say "need based only" but common wisdom says that they actually do consider merit outside of Hamiltons and Butlers. Just because you didn't get a named scholarship, it doesn't mean you'll be paying sticker, and with your numbers, I really doubt you wouldn't get any money.

I didn't know that, thanks. Right now I'm leaning towards waiting another year if I get less than $50k total from Columbia.

[jbagelboy]

Hey hey now - wait till your CLS aid comes in. CLS may assume you have an H acceptance and offer $85K, which is nearly half tuition. Also you could still get a recycled Butler. And it's not exactly a shitty option.

Submit your financial aid paperwork ASAP!

It doesn't sound like your softs will change from this cycle to next. if you actually receive $0 from Columbia, I would hedge towards taking a full ride at a lower T14, or having some "realtalk" with CLS and HLS admissions. Maybe they are operating under some dangerous misconception about your candidacy.

I would remind you to consider the opportunity cost of reapplying. This isn't a "retake" scenario, so the loss of a year of potential income, and the new $500 minimum in app fees, are real DWL. Again, a Yale acceptance or Hamilton would make reapplying completely worthwhile, but history suggests those are highly unlikely.

[hcrimson2014]

Definitely had bad recs, I didn't really get to know any professors when I was in undergrad, so they're probably just generic templates. Undergrad is a state flagship, but its not top 50 or anything.

I currently work at a small startup, I have a fairly prestigious title but get paid almost nothing in terms of actual money, and its very likely the equity they gave me will also be worthless within several years. I'm thinking that my complete lack of softs and unremarkable work experience is what hurt me, but that's really stuff I won't be able to change if I re-apply.

I think apart from Yale, no school would take a generic LOR as a negative and with your numbers, it is hard to imagine you not getting into H even if you professors have only stated the content of his class and your grade in it, and assuming you asked for LORs from the profs that you have gotten very high marks from, which you should have plenty to choose from, the LORs really shouldn't hurt (at least not to the degree it has). Have someone look over you essay and write a diversity statement as well if you can and reapply next year, CLS at sticker is not a bad choice by any means but you should make the most out of your numbers.

[moonman157]

What other schools did you apply to? It's insane that you didn't receive money from any other T14.

[Gucci Mane]

Thanks for the encouragement and advice. I slept on it and decided to set a hard scholarship number for my decision. If Columbia offers me $65k+ total, I'll go. Otherwise, in the more likely scenario that they don't, I'll fix up my PS and try again next year. Though I'm a bit worried that turning down the schools I got accepted to this year to re-apply would hurt me with those same schools next year.

What other schools did you apply to? It's insane that you didn't receive money from any other T14.

My fault for being overconfident, I didn't apply to enough schools and didn't write Why X essays for a few of them. Waitlisted at Michigan & Duke (presumably YP), waitlisted at Chicago & Harvard, accepted to UVA & NYU (negligible $).

[northwood]

reapply and rework your essays

[y2zipper]

Yeah at 3.9 176 you shouldn't be paying for law school at all. Reapply and rework those essays.

[Doorkeeper]

For the love of god, reapply and spend the year getting good letters of recommendation from your boss or others in a professional context.

You should not be settling for Columbia at sticker with your numbers

[moonman157]

Reapply, get a full ride to a T14, graduate with no debt

[Gucci Mane]

What's the reasoning behind all those choosing Columbia @ sticker in the poll?

[northwood]

What's the reasoning behind all those choosing Columbia @ sticker in the poll?

With a 3.9 176, you should not be going to Columbia at sticker. Either you applied too late, or there is something really wrong with your essays/ LOR. Sit this cycle out, use the summer to rework your essays, and apply to the T14 and the state flagship school of your home state, as well as the best regional school in that region.

You should also be getting fee waivers from most schools, so application fees should not be too much of a burden.

[InTheHouse]

Are Columbia's admissions staff voting in this poll?

[Gucci Mane]

.

[staysha]

Do not go to Columbia at sticker with those numbers. I wouldn't even go for 65k with those numbers. Something happened with your application. You shouldn't be paying for law school no matter how little work experience you have with those numbers. Sit out and create a killer app. You already did the hard part.

[ymmv]

What's the reasoning behind all those choosing Columbia @ sticker in the poll?

With a 3.9 176, you should not be going to Columbia at sticker. Either you applied too late, or there is something really wrong with your essays/ LOR. Sit this cycle out, use the summer to rework your essays, and apply to the T14 and the state flagship school of your home state, as well as the best regional school in that region.

You should also be getting fee waivers from most schools, so application fees should not be too much of a burden.

Seconded. Those are excellent numbers, and you should be getting some decent $ from Columbia or its peer schools (or $$$/full ride at lower T14) unless there is something seriously wrong with the rest of your application.