UGA v UVA v Duke? Forum

[top_gun]

I need some advice on what school is a better option.

I graduated with a 3.8 and 170 LSAT and have been accepted to UGA (36k resident) Duke (81k) UVA (45k) and Indiana (126k).

I'd like to practice big-law in Atlanta upon graduation, but I also have some serious concerns about taking on so much debt to go to UVA or Duke not to mention the fact that I have no connections in either state and would be completely isolated from all of my relationships at home due to the difficulty and cost associated with traveling. Georgia is my most economical option, but I've been discouraged by a reports saying that they'd have a hard time getting you a job at McDonald's with a J.D. from them.

So what's the better risk to take? Being left with a useless degree or financial ruin under $150k+ in debt?

I should mention that the tax man effectively erased my savings this year due to some unfortunate employment circumstances, so I'll effectively have almost nothing saved from a year of working.

So, UVA, DUke, UGA, or travel back in time and get an undergrad degree in a real field?

[3L2014]

Duke.

[Otunga]

Duke looks like the choice here. It's your most affordable t14 acceptance, and TLS common wisdom states it has solid placement in southern biglaw. Not to mention you could obtain NYC biglaw from there if you didn't land something in the south. UVA could be supported if you were pursuing PI or something in DC, but it doesn't appear you are. I think UGA could be supported if you wanted to stay and work in Georgia for good. But as you point out, the placement is iffy, and at 36k that still presents a shitty situation if you don't obtain something.

[Tiago Splitter]

81k at Duke is solid. But keep negotiating.

[MyNameIsFlynn!]

Given your goals, I'd probably pick Duke. UGA is a good school and a JD from there is certainly not worthless, but you're not likely to get Atl BigLaw unless you end up in the top 10%. From either Duke or UVA, the cutoffs are roughly the same -top third (ish). Duke with a half scholarship is a decent balance between minimizing debt and maximizing BigLaw opportunity IMO.

Also, have you considered retaking the LSAT? One or two more points could potentially be worth 10-20k more from duke.

[top_gun]

Given your goals, I'd probably pick Duke. UGA is a good school and a JD from there is certainly not worthless, but you're not likely to get Atl BigLaw unless you end up in the top 10%. From either Duke or UVA, the cutoffs are roughly the same -top third (ish). Duke with a half scholarship is a decent balance between minimizing debt and maximizing BigLaw opportunity IMO.

Also, have you considered retaking the LSAT? One or two more points could potentially be worth 10-20k more from duke.

I have, but I don't have the time before the matriculation deadlines to do so. I was testing in the 169-179 range in Testmasters and really screwed the pooch come test time so I'm to blame for that.

I'm not sure if it does matter, but I've got good connections in the Atlanta law market, but I'm effectively blackballed at K&S for bullshit family reasons.

[Gooner91]

Duke seems like a good choice.
UVa and Duke are pretty much peer schools so considering the price difference Duke should win. I think the other option you should consider is UGA. Did UGA give you a full ride and the 36k is COL?

[top_gun]

Duke seems like a good choice.
UVa and Duke are pretty much peer schools so considering the price difference Duke should win. I think the other option you should consider is UGA. Did UGA give you a full ride and the 36k is COL?

36k there is 2/3rds tuition. I could get some family help on COL and finance the remaining 1/3rd with student loans. That's the most "comfortable" option, but I keep hearing terrible things about the job placement over there.

[Gooner91]

Duke seems like a good choice.
UVa and Duke are pretty much peer schools so considering the price difference Duke should win. I think the other option you should consider is UGA. Did UGA give you a full ride and the 36k is COL?

36k there is 2/3rds tuition. I could get some family help on COL and finance the remaining 1/3rd with student loans. That's the most "comfortable" option, but I keep hearing terrible things about the job placement over there.

I don't know much about UGA but do you think they would negotiate? Looking at LST it looks like they don't have terrible placement if you want to stay in GA, although biglaw would be tough. I think it said like 36 in firms over 250 attorneys with 24 of them in firms with over 500.
I think Duke is still a better choice but I am not so sure it beats UGA by a ton.
Do you prefer biglaw ATL>any biglaw>any ATL, or what?

[jbagelboy]

I like Duke here. Congrats!

[top_gun]

Duke seems like a good choice.
UVa and Duke are pretty much peer schools so considering the price difference Duke should win. I think the other option you should consider is UGA. Did UGA give you a full ride and the 36k is COL?

36k there is 2/3rds tuition. I could get some family help on COL and finance the remaining 1/3rd with student loans. That's the most "comfortable" option, but I keep hearing terrible things about the job placement over there.

I don't know much about UGA but do you think they would negotiate? Looking at LST it looks like they don't have terrible placement if you want to stay in GA, although biglaw would be tough. I think it said like 36 in firms over 250 attorneys with 24 of them in firms with over 500.
I think Duke is still a better choice but I am not so sure it beats UGA by a ton.
Do you prefer biglaw ATL>any biglaw>any ATL, or what?

I'd say biglaw ATL>any ATL. I've lived in Georgia all my life and, besides just enjoying the geography, I think it's a friendlier environment for the wealthy than CA of NY. I've got some fallback options here as well, but I'd rather not be in a position to call up favors.

[Gooner91]

I'd say biglaw ATL>any ATL. I've lived in Georgia all my life and, besides just enjoying the geography, I think it's a friendlier environment for the wealthy than CA of NY. I've got some fallback options here as well, but I'd rather not be in a position to call up favors.

I think considering your preference for Atlanta UGA seems like a good choice, but I am not sure if it is better than Duke.

However, your preferences might change what people recommend so hopefully some people with more knowledge than me can chime in.

[Tiago Splitter]

If you aren't willing to bid New York during OCI from Duke then I'd probably recommend UGA.

[cm2015]

Late to the party here, but you should negotiate w/ uga (little confused by wording of your post whether you have resident tuition plus 36k- that would be close to full- or the 36 gets you to resident level) . . . I'd bet they'll give you a full ride, or close to it, w/ a 170 lsat if you show serious interest.

[lecsa]

Even with 81k that's still a lot of debt from Duke (200k+). Can you get someone to up your scholarship? Otherwise i'm not sure i'd go to law school.

[jkpolk]

I like Duke here. Congrats!

[KatyMarie]

I've got 37.5k to UGA (resident) and 90k to Duke, I totally get where you're coming from.

I like Duke out of these options. Based on what students/alums have told me, you have a really good shot at Biglaw in the Southeast if you're in the top 2/3rds of the class. UGA would be a much tougher road to Biglaw.

Also, I've gotten a full scholarship/stipend to a peer school of UGA and they weren't really receptive to negotiation with me. But that could just be my experience.

[KatyMarie]

Even with 81k that's still a lot of debt from Duke (200k+). Can you get someone to up your scholarship? Otherwise i'm not sure i'd go to law school.

Wouldn't be THAT much...would definitely still be under 200k.

[splittinghairs]

The answer is gonna depend on how willing you are to do NYC biglaw if you strike out targetting ATL by going to Duke.

There are very few spots for ATL 2L SA, so ATL firms are grade selective even if you go to a non-HYS top 14. I think you need to be top 1/3 from Duke to get ATL biglaw if you have ties to ATL. Whereas you'd need top 20% from UGA. I know some people have been saying top 10% for uga but they are likely getting that from NLJ 250 showing approximately 10% of UGA grads getting a NLJ 250 firm. Your odds are better because UGA actually places a decent percentage of their grads in Federal Clerkships, (~7-8%) each year. Many who get those clerkships likely had or could have accepted offers with an ATL biglaw firm.

It looks like Duke will cost $150k and UGA would cost you $55-60K. So for an extra 90K you give yourself an extra 13% at ATL biglaw and the added bonus of NYC biglaw if you get Median or above at Duke.

With 150k debt you'll need some kind of biglaw to pay that off, by going to Duke you'll have 50-60% chance of finding something that will pay off your 150k debt. At UGA, with 55-60k debt, you'll need to find some kind of long-term full-time legal job to pay off that debt. Even a job at a small firm making 50-60k could allow you to service that low debt, since you do have Georgia ties your chances are decent at finding a job. Law School Transparency figures show that 70% of the class at UGA find a long-term full-time legal job.

[mjr.don]

I am in a very similar situation, but ruled out UVA when I got their offer. I was then trying to decide if I could justify the added cost of Duke. After visiting both, it became very clear that Duke was right for me. The student body was extremely enjoyable and the environment at Duke Law and in the research triangle is very intellectually stimulating. You could get a fine legal education from UGA at a great price, but Duke seemed to offer something more.

Obviously one goes to law school to become a lawyer. But for me, I aim for law school to be an end in and of itself, as well (queue jaded cynical responses). Granted, that is a sizable difference in cost, and it can't be solely justified by something intangible like what I've mentioned. But combining that w/ employment numbers, it became an easy choice.

Hope to see you in Durham this fall!

[jenesaislaw]

http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/ ... e/georgia/

You should create an account and input your financial data to generate expected monthly payments post-grad and total debt.

[splittinghairs]

http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/ ... e/georgia/

You should create an account and input your financial data to generate expected monthly payments post-grad and total debt.

Agreed.

However, you should note that LST uses calculations for Cost of Living based on the maximum loan you could obtain, so that COL figure is slightly inflated. So to clarify my earlier post when I said it would be 150k versus 60k, that would not be including accruing interest during 3 years of law school. Factoring interest would yield a more realistic number of ~180k debt from Duke and ~75K from UGA based on your current scholarship offers.

[jenesaislaw]

http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/ ... e/georgia/

You should create an account and input your financial data to generate expected monthly payments post-grad and total debt.

Agreed.

However, you should note that LST uses calculations for Cost of Living based on the maximum loan you could obtain, so that COL figure is slightly inflated. So to clarify my earlier post when I said it would be 150k versus 60k, that would not be including accruing interest during 3 years of law school. Factoring interest would yield a more realistic number of ~180k debt from Duke and ~75K from UGA based on your current scholarship offers.

That's why I suggested s/he input financial data him or herself.

For what it's worth, the school profiles now include a table of various scenarios. Only 6 of the 24 debt totals are the max loan for COL.

UVA's: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/uva/costs/

[splittinghairs]

http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/ ... e/georgia/

You should create an account and input your financial data to generate expected monthly payments post-grad and total debt.

Agreed.

However, you should note that LST uses calculations for Cost of Living based on the maximum loan you could obtain, so that COL figure is slightly inflated. So to clarify my earlier post when I said it would be 150k versus 60k, that would not be including accruing interest during 3 years of law school. Factoring interest would yield a more realistic number of ~180k debt from Duke and ~75K from UGA based on your current scholarship offers.

That's why I suggested s/he input financial data him or herself.

For what it's worth, the school profiles now include a table of various scenarios. Only 6 of the 24 debt totals are the max loan for COL.

UVA's: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/uva/costs/

Oh wow you guys got more fancy. Very useful, its even got tuition increases factored in.

[jenesaislaw]

Oh wow you guys got more fancy. Very useful, its even got tuition increases factored in.

Yep, and the increases are sensitive to whether the school guarantees tuition or has announced a major reduction in tuition for the next year.