URGENT: LS ADVICE Forum

[godawgs24]

Hi y'all,

Thank you for taking the time to read my post and I appreciate any advice/insight that will help me make my decision easier as I need to be submit my deposit within the next three days.

For starters, my application stats are 3.6 and 161. I've taken the LSAT twice already so retaking is not a viable option. My residency is in California.

I am choosing between the University of San Diego ($33k a year renewable scholarship if I stay in good academic standing), Loyola Marymount ($32k a year renewable scholarship contingent on maintaining a 3.2+ GPA) and Arizona State University (out of state sticker price).

I have also been wait listed at the following four schools - George Washington, Emory, Washington University in St. Louis, and the College of William and Mary.

I have done my research but still have no concrete idea what type of law that I want to practice or where I want to start my career.

I appreciate any help as to which of these three schools you feel would be better choice as well as what you would do if taken off the wait list for any of the four schools above considering the likely sticker price.

Thanks again

[transferror]

If you're going to attend any of these schools (and I'm not saying you should), please choose the cheapest option.

Your wait list schools are ok, but you don't want to pay sticker at any of them.

For Loyola-M and USD, your chances at full-time, long-term legal employment are literally a coin flip. Odds are better at ASU, but the increase isn't worth the mountain of debt. Especially since you only have an 8% chance of landing biglaw from ASU and having a salary big enough to service your debt.

USD is the cheapest, although you'll still be ≈ $100k in debt at graduation. If you're ok with that debt and a coin flip at employment, go ahead. Just be aware that it could end very poorly.

[bizzike]

I hate to be harsh. But you're better off not going. http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=207045. These graphs will give you an idea. You're looking at a 10-15% chance of nailing biglaw (the only salaries that are going to help you finance your 100k debt). I know I know, you can always be the one out of ten that nails the dream job. But look at it this way, there's an 80-85% chance you'll be making less than half of your aggregate debt as your total annual income. Statistically speaking, taking out 100k from a loan shark and betting it all on your first two hands of blackjack would generate better odds for a return (this way you don't have to sacrifice 3 years to get the results!)

[Pneumonia]

Don't go to law school (right now).
You've just got too much going against you: bad schools at a terrible price and you don't know what you want to do with the degree. These schools aren't going to allow you to spend three years (or even one) figuring out what you'd like to do and then graduate into that field. The people getting jobs coming out of them are either a) using family connections or b) pounding the pavement from day one towards a specific goal and also getting fairly lucky.

Retaking is always a viable option, but there's not even a question about it for you because you still have one retake left. From your post it seems like you have a useless liberal arts degree (as do I) and no idea what to do with it. Do not pay 100k+ to put off the inevitable job search. Instead, find something to do now and spend as long as you need to get a good score. 3.6 won't keep you out of any schools except Yale and Stanford, and with the right LSAT will you get you good money at lots of T14's.

Try local businesses for employment; it's easier to get something interesting that involves responsibility.

Even if I'm wrong about your college degree / work experience all of the rest of the above advice still stands.

[Mauve.Dino]

For starters, my application stats are 3.6 and 161. I've taken the LSAT twice already so retaking is not a viable option.

With a 161? No, retaking the LSAT is not only a viable option, but the credited one.

[InTheHouse]

I have done my research but still have no concrete idea what type of law that I want to practice or where I want to start my career.

Do you at least have a vague idea? One that you can share? Asking people to help you out without any sense for what you hope to get out of law school is a pointless exercise.

[godawgs24]

I graduated from UW with a communications degree and I would have to lean towards thinking about working in IP or big law. Thanks for all the input, it's making me seriously consider buckling down to study for the LSAT again.

[InTheHouse]

I graduated from UW with a communications degree and I would have to lean towards thinking about working in IP or big law. Thanks for all the input, it's making me seriously consider buckling down to study for the LSAT again.

Do you think a 161 represents your best effort?

[03152016]

I graduated from UW with a communications degree and I would have to lean towards thinking about working in IP or big law. Thanks for all the input, it's making me seriously consider buckling down to study for the LSAT again.

Good idea. You have plenty of time to prep for the September test and polish your apps for next cycle. Gaining five points (easy to do if you're weak on games) and you'll have some $$ on the table at some decent regional schools. Break into the 170s and you'll have plenty of T14 offers (some with $$). If you want a reasonable chance of big law, you should not attend any of the schools you have been admitted to.

[godawgs24]

To be honest, I'm not sure if I can score at least 5 points better than 161. I got a 152 on my first try. Unfortunately the bulk of my mistakes on the test as well as my practice tests have come from reading so that is what's holding me back from waiting for next cycle.

[03152016]

To be honest, I'm not sure if I can score at least 5 points better than 161. I got a 152 on my first try. Unfortunately the bulk of my mistakes on the test as well as my practice tests have come from reading so that is what's holding me back from waiting for next cycle.

What was the score breakdown?

[godawgs24]

-14 reading, -10 reasoning, -0 games

[keviiiiiiiiiiiin]

.

[DoubleChecks]

-14 reading, -10 reasoning, -0 games

Damn. Hardest thing to improve on is your worst. That being said, TCRs are what others have said already. I'd put off law school for now. $100k+ in debt is NOT fun. I have friends graduating from Harvard w/ biglaw jobs who have a tough time with the debt they have...it sounds like it'd be a poor life decision to jump into it right now when you are not completely prepared.

Best of luck.

[03152016]

-14 reading, -10 reasoning, -0 games

Couple things that could be happening here. Best case scenario is that you're having a hard time with section strategy stuff - understanding what the question stem is asking, annotation problems, pacing. If the issue is that you're a slow reader or have a difficult time understanding the material, that's a much harder fix. It's probably some combination of factors, and I expect you have room for meaningful improvement. If you don't want to go into detail in the thread shoot me a PM.

[Joe Christmas]

To be honest, I'm not sure if I can score at least 5 points better than 161. I got a 152 on my first try. Unfortunately the bulk of my mistakes on the test as well as my practice tests have come from reading so that is what's holding me back from waiting for next cycle.

You absolutely can pull this off. I went from 143 PT to 179-80 PTs and 175 on the real thing. And I went from a horrible reading score to missing no more than 2 or 3.

You can do this. It will take time and it will be difficult, but it is worth it.

(And this is coming from someone who hates all of the 'retake' fury on TLS)

You should retake, but only after taking all of the PTs.

[DoubleChecks]

To be honest, I'm not sure if I can score at least 5 points better than 161. I got a 152 on my first try. Unfortunately the bulk of my mistakes on the test as well as my practice tests have come from reading so that is what's holding me back from waiting for next cycle.

You absolutely can pull this off. I went from 143 PT to 179-80 PTs and 175 on the real thing. And I went from a horrible reading score to missing no more than 2 or 3.

You can do this. It will take time and it will be difficult, but it is worth it.

(And this is coming from someone who hates all of the 'retake' fury on TLS)

You should retake, but only after taking all of the PTs.

I do believe this to be true, that the LSAT is quite learnable.

[godawgs24]

Thanks all for your advice. Last question - any suggestions on going to a school like SD then transferring out after the first year vs taking a year off to take the test again

[transferror]

As far as retaking, the test is beatable and admissions are predictable. For transferring, your first year grades are wildly unpredictable and transfer admissions are far less predictable than regular admissions. Don't count on being in a position to transfer into a great school. Then, even if you are top ≈ 5%, there's no way to know if you'll be admitted into any of your preferred schools. Even if you get accepted, you'll have to pay sticker and lose all contacts from 1L + LR. It's just not a good plan.

You have a much better chance at improving your LSAT and getting into a better school than you do killing 1L and transferring into a better school. Not to mention a better LSAT leads to scholarship and transferring leads to paying sticker.

[PrideandGlory1776]

Retake is TCR - you can't say it's not an option if you still have one re-take left that's really just not rational or reasonable to do - if you even had a small percentage chance of increasing your score it could be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars it would be grossly irresponsible to cost yourself 5-10 maybe even 15 years of misery because you wouldn't take a 5 hour standardized test based on "principle" or "hubris" or whatever the lame excuse/justification/denial/rationalization may be - use your re-take and apply again next cycle. It hurts and is annoying to hear that I empathize with your desire to attend law school and do so immediately but I promise you that you will be glad that you did in the long-run because your future prospects will be significantly enhanced

[iamgeorgebush]

you have to have superb grades in order to successfully xfer, which you can't know you'll have. you'd be better off waiting a year and retaking, in my humble 0L opinion.