UCLA v USC v Duke v Cornell v Mich v Georgetown Forum

[youngxerxes]

Schools + COA
USC~ $105,000
UCLA~ $135,000
Duke~ $170,000
Cornell~ $180,000
Michigan~ $172,000
Georgetown~ $200,000
NYU~ $240,000

Financing
Exclusively loans. I don't anticipate getting any need-based aid. I’m coming straight out of undergrad…

Goals
Originally from Los Angeles, and would like to end up in California BigLaw after law school. Ultimately, I hope to use my legal career as a springboard into business and management.

Preferences
No geographical preference for where I attend law school. I want a collegial environment (big time campus with a sports following, social scene, etc is a plus). Weather is a marginal consideration.

Numbers
GPA: 3.8 (graduating in May)
LSAT: 167 (taken once)


Any advice is sincerely appreciated. I would be happy to provide more info, if need be.

[Winston1984]

I would definitely retake, but if those COA are correct, I'd say Duke. They seem to do well in CA and offers the environment you want.

[moonman157]

Is your preference for a job

CA biglaw > job in CA > NYC biglaw or
CA biglaw > NYC biglaw > job in CA

[youngxerxes]

Is your preference for a job

CA biglaw > job in CA > NYC biglaw or
CA biglaw > NYC biglaw > job in CA

CA biglaw>NYC biglaw>job in CA

[youngxerxes]

I would definitely retake, but if those COA are correct, I'd say Duke. They seem to do well in CA and offers the environment you want.

Makes sense. How would you compare Michigan and Duke in terms of CA placement? Or just in general

[Law Sauce]

Voted Doook. But its a Duke Michigan toss up. So, visit and choose.

USC is the other best option but since NY biglaw > CA any job, then stick to your t14 offers.

[Lincoln]

Schools + COA
USC~ $105,000
UCLA~ $135,000
Duke~ $170,000
Cornell~ $180,000
Michigan~ $172,000
Georgetown~ $200,000
NYU~ $240,000

Financing
Exclusively loans. I don't anticipate getting any need-based aid. I’m coming straight out of undergrad…

Goals
Originally from Los Angeles, and would like to end up in California BigLaw after law school. Ultimately, I hope to use my legal career as a springboard into business and management.

Preferences
No geographical preference for where I attend law school. I want a collegial environment (big time campus with a sports following, social scene, etc is a plus). Weather is a marginal consideration.

Numbers
GPA: 3.8 (graduating in May)
LSAT: 167 (taken once)


Any advice is sincerely appreciated. I would be happy to provide more info, if need be.

The bolded is not easy. Quite a few people go into banking/fund work from big corporate shops in NYC, but that's not really "business and management". Similarly, some people go in-house, but that's not really "business and management" either. Unfortunately, there isn't a lot of opportunity to be the next Charlie Munger.

Moreover, you should retake if you have the slightest inkling that you could score higher. A few more points could easily halve your debt from USC/UCLA.

If you absolutely have to go, I'd probably go with USC or maybe Duke/Cornell here.

Edit 1 for typo.

Edit 2: Didn't realize it wasn't in order of COA. So make that USC or Duke/Michigan/Cornell.

[Winston1984]

I would definitely retake, but if those COA are correct, I'd say Duke. They seem to do well in CA and offers the environment you want.

Makes sense. How would you compare Michigan and Duke in terms of CA placement? Or just in general

Someone link LST up in here, but I imagine they are very similar roughly 10% going to CA. I have no idea how much self-selection goes into those schools, but I imagine most people don't go there for CA biglaw. Sounds like you have some ties which is also helpful. Placement stats are really close, but Duke does have a small edge in recent years. People also will say that because Michigan is more PI focused it's biglaw stats aren't as impressive. Who knows. I don't think you can make a wrong decision between the two, but I do give the edge to Duke. Hopefully I didn't just start another Michigan employment debate.

[jbagelboy]

Voted USC. Surprised at the Duke/Michigan energy since OP wants to end up in California and $170,000 is a lot more payments, i.e. brutal weeks as a junior associate, than $100,000.

[Tiago Splitter]

Voted USC. Surprised at the Duke/Michigan energy since OP wants to end up in California and $170,000 is a lot more payments, i.e. brutal weeks as a junior associate, than $100,000.

If they all had equal placement into biglaw I'd agree. Not to mention OP would rather do NY Biglaw than CA small law.

[lecsa]

I think it's a toss up between Mich and Duke. Mich generally places a greater percentage into CA, but Duke has had slightly more in biglaw generally percentage-wise this past year. The employment of the two are close though so I'd visit and see which you like more.

Cornell to me is a somewhat regional school and is heavily NYC-focused, so I wouldn't really consider it.

[Lincoln]

I think it's a toss up between Mich and Duke. Mich generally places a greater percentage into CA, but Duke has had slightly more in biglaw generally percentage-wise this past year. The employment of the two are close though so I'd visit and see which you like more.

Cornell to me is a somewhat regional school and is heavily NYC-focused, so I wouldn't really consider it.

Cornell c/o 2013 here. What you say is true to some extent, but more and more people are going to CA, and it's definitely doable. There's even a Cornell California Club (or something along those lines) now at the law school that provides advice for people wanting to go to CA.

[jbagelboy]

Voted USC. Surprised at the Duke/Michigan energy since OP wants to end up in California and $170,000 is a lot more payments, i.e. brutal weeks as a junior associate, than $100,000.

If they all had equal placement into biglaw I'd agree. Not to mention OP would rather do NY Biglaw than CA small law.

Then it's at least Duke v USC, and not Duke v Michigan, for me.

[BigZuck]

I don't know that Duke is worth 65K more than USC for someone who wants CA big law but I guess maybe the willingness to work NYC big law changes things.

Where's Slack?

Anyway, my vote is retake June and see what happens. Not retaking June just might be one of the biggest mistakes of your life.

[youngxerxes]

I don't know that Duke is worth 65K more than USC for someone who wants CA big law but I guess maybe the willingness to work NYC big law changes things.

Where's Slack?

Anyway, my vote is retake June and see what happens. Not retaking June just might be one of the biggest mistakes of your life.

Agreed. In this case, should I reapply altogether next year?

Or should I make a seat deposit, retake, and then hopefully leverage my new score to increase scholarship?

[sccjnthn]

Schools + COA
USC~ $105,000
UCLA~ $135,000
Duke~ $170,000
Cornell~ $180,000
Michigan~ $172,000
Georgetown~ $200,000
NYU~ $240,000

Financing
Exclusively loans. I don't anticipate getting any need-based aid. I’m coming straight out of undergrad…

Goals
Originally from Los Angeles, and would like to end up in California BigLaw after law school. Ultimately, I hope to use my legal career as a springboard into business and management.

Preferences
No geographical preference for where I attend law school. I want a collegial environment (big time campus with a sports following, social scene, etc is a plus). Weather is a marginal consideration.

Numbers
GPA: 3.8 (graduating in May)
LSAT: 167 (taken once)


Any advice is sincerely appreciated. I would be happy to provide more info, if need be.

The bolded is not easy. Quite a few people go into banking/fund work from big corporate shops in NYC, but that's not really "business and management". Similarly, some people go in-house, but that's not really "business and management" either. Unfortunately, there isn't a lot of opportunity to be the next Charlie Munger.

Moreover, you should retake if you have the slightest inkling that you could score higher. A few more points could easily halve your debt from USC/UCLA.

If you absolutely have to go, I'd probably go with USC or maybe Duke/Cornell here.

Edit 1 for typo.

Edit 2: Didn't realize it wasn't in order of COA. So make that USC or Duke/Michigan/Cornell.

+1 I think too many people fall for the admission line that you can do anything with a law degree. If you want something to be a springboard into business and management go work in business and management. You'll get there a lot quicker and at a much cheaper price.

[Doorkeeper]

1. Retake.

2. No Berkeley option?

[zman]

Ask for more money from USC and UCLA, they will up your total amount.

[cotiger]

Is your preference for a job

CA biglaw > job in CA > NYC biglaw or
CA biglaw > NYC biglaw > job in CA

CA biglaw>NYC biglaw>job in CA

Duke it is! Or I guess Mich, if you really like it better there.

NYC biglaw>job in CA makes them better options than USC.

[HP5450]

Last year Michigan sent 10.5 percent of graduates to California alone. Duke sent 11.6 percent to some combination of Alaska, Hawaii, California, Neveada, Washington, Oregon, Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho, and Montana. Especially given the fact that Michigan has a larger class to begin with, it's clear that Michigan has better connections in CA. I think it's between Michigan and Duke, and if I were you, I would choose Michigan, despite the weather.

Edit: Just noticed that Duke lists 6.7 percent of its 2013 class as going to California. With 225 employed graduated that translated to 15 jobs in CA vs. 39 for Michigan (.105*364).

[cotiger]

Last year Michigan sent 10.5 percent of graduates to California alone. Duke sent 11.6 percent to some combination of Alaska, Hawaii, California, Neveada, Washington, Oregon, Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho, and Montana. Especially given the fact that Michigan has a larger class to begin with, it's clear that Michigan has better connections in CA. I think it's between Michigan and Duke, and if I were you, I would choose Michigan, despite the weather.

Q.E.D.

Except..

C/o 2012: Duke had 12% in CA vs 9.3% in CA at Mich

C/o 2011: Duke had 12.7% in the West vs 9% in CA at Mich (note: not directly comparable categories)

C/o 2010: Duke had 12.2% in the Pacific vs 12.3% in the Pacific at Mich

C/o 2009: Duke had 13.2% in the Pacific vs 13.8% in the Pacific at Mich

I do not see any significantly greater tendency to go to CA at Mich

[jbagelboy]

Last year Michigan sent 10.5 percent of graduates to California alone. Duke sent 11.6 percent to some combination of Alaska, Hawaii, California, Neveada, Washington, Oregon, Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho, and Montana. Especially given the fact that Michigan has a larger class to begin with, it's clear that Michigan has better connections in CA. I think it's between Michigan and Duke, and if I were you, I would choose Michigan, despite the weather.

Q.E.D.

Except..

C/o 2012: Duke had 12% in CA vs 9.3% in CA at Mich

C/o 2011: Duke had 12.7% in the West vs 9% in CA at Mich (note: not directly comparable categories)

C/o 2010: Duke had 12.2% in the Pacific vs 12.3% in the Pacific at Mich

C/o 2009: Duke had 13.2% in the Pacific vs 13.8% in the Pacific at Mich

I do not see any significantly greater tendency to go to CA at Mich

Not to mention the entire argument is ridiculous, regardless of year on year placement variation

[cotiger]

Not to mention the entire argument is ridiculous, regardless of year on year placement variation

Haven't you heard? It's going to be really tough for you to get a job anywhere except for NY because that's where all those CLS connections are.

Oh wait..

[jbagelboy]

Not to mention the entire argument is ridiculous, regardless of year on year placement variation

Haven't you heard? It's going to be really tough for you to get a job anywhere except for NY because that's where all those CLS connections are.

Oh wait..

That's why all the yale kids be gunnin for that BIGNEWHAVENLAW

[HP5450]

Last year Michigan sent 10.5 percent of graduates to California alone. Duke sent 11.6 percent to some combination of Alaska, Hawaii, California, Neveada, Washington, Oregon, Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho, and Montana. Especially given the fact that Michigan has a larger class to begin with, it's clear that Michigan has better connections in CA. I think it's between Michigan and Duke, and if I were you, I would choose Michigan, despite the weather.

Q.E.D.

Except..

C/o 2012: Duke had 12% in CA vs 9.3% in CA at Mich

C/o 2011: Duke had 12.7% in the West vs 9% in CA at Mich (note: not directly comparable categories)

C/o 2010: Duke had 12.2% in the Pacific vs 12.3% in the Pacific at Mich

C/o 2009: Duke had 13.2% in the Pacific vs 13.8% in the Pacific at Mich

I do not see any significantly greater tendency to go to CA at Mich

Not to mention the entire argument is ridiculous, regardless of year on year placement variation

I like how the West v. California comparison gets stuck in there on the 2011 numbers. In every one of those years, more Michigan graduates are heading to California than Duke grads. The argument isn't ridiculous. Saying something is ridiculous does not make it so.

Visit both schools. Observe the difference in personalities. Figure out where you're going to feel more comfortable. In the end, if you're uncertain, recognize that Michigan has a more widespread geographic dispersion than Duke. You might want to consider that.