NC for IP Law: UNC or Wake? Forum

[RonBurgundy]

First off, I have read old threads on the UNC v Wake debate but would like to see what the popular opinion is now since the US News rankings (if those matter to you..) and more specifically in regards to IP.

Background:
I also will not retake the LSAT and sit out another cycle, so that isn't an option. I would like to live in the state of NC but am originally from Florida . Wake Forest offered 75% me and I am waiting on UNC's scholarship offer. The difference after scholarships for my tuition will be paid for in loans. The majority of my COL will be covered by my S/O. The final estimated costs including everything put UNC at 35K over the cost of Wake.

My pro/cons
I have a graduate degree in biotechnology and am interested in pursuing a career in IP Law. For this reason the Research park near UNC is enticing because of all the work going on in my technical field. However, I liked "boring" Winston-Salem and could care less for the college town atmosphere of Chapel-Hill. I also can also say I was underwhelmed by UNC's facilities and really preferred the smaller classes and more personal feel of Wake.

Thus, all my personal factors and $ have me leaning toward Wake but I would ignore those if UNC conferred a reasonable advantage for me in the the future.

Thank you all in advance!

[AT9]

I don't think either offers a substantial advantage over the other. I would make my decision based on these two factors, in order:

1. Whichever is cheaper.
2. If similar price, whichever school you like more.

[raininthedesert]

Assuming there isn't substantive differences in COA, this is an easy one...

UNC. The Winston-Salem Area is devoid of biotech or any sort of technology-oriented R&D. The research triangle in Raleigh would provide very unique and substantive opportunities with biotechnology firms (e.g., internships, networking, etc.). Furthermore, UNC is a true research institution whereas Wake is simply an undergraduate oriented private school. This fact has real practical implications relative to additional opportunities to take classes in substantive science, business, or medical courses at the graduate level and opportunities to work in the technology transfer office within UNC.

Huge mistake, based solely on your preferences, to select Wake.

[RonBurgundy]

Assuming there isn't substantive differences in COA, this is an easy one...

UNC. The Winston-Salem Area is devoid of biotech or any sort of technology-oriented R&D. The research triangle in Raleigh would provide very unique and substantive opportunities with biotechnology firms (e.g., internships, networking, etc.). Furthermore, UNC is a true research institution whereas Wake is simply an undergraduate oriented private school. This fact has real practical implications relative to additional opportunities to take classes in substantive science, business, or medical courses at the graduate level and opportunities to work in the technology transfer office within UNC.

Huge mistake, based solely on your preferences, to select Wake.

Thanks for the feedback. These are precisely the things I fear I will miss out on if I go to Wake. I think it makes complete sense if all things are equal. However, where do you draw the line if UNC were to cost more? I will know soon exactly how much UNC will offer and I'll post it to clarify. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that it will be less than $$$ I was offered from Wake...

[dstars823]

i mean Kilpatrick Stockton and Womble Carlysle both have major Winston offices that tend to hire from Wake so I dont think you would be too wrong in going to Wake, I think it just comes down to how much you want to pay to go to law school. Go honestly to whichever one is cheaper

[Winston1984]

Answer all the questions in the sticky.

[RonBurgundy]

Answer all the questions in the sticky.

I am confused. Did you message not post completely?

[Winston1984]

Answer all the questions in the sticky.

I am confused. Did you message not post completely?

In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

[jackattack17]

1. You can mostly avoid the "college town" feel of Chapel Hill by living in South Durham or even Raleigh, either of which would be a fairly easy commute (and you'd be living close to RTP or passing it every day). I don't think that should be as determinative a factor.

2. Also, yes, Winston has Kilpatrick and Womble, but UNC still does well in Winston and better than Wake in Raleigh. There are also several biglaw firms that have little IP shops in RTP, and that would be much more accessible from UNC.

3. And there are externship opportunities from UNC that place you in-house at a few RTP biotech-type places.

Unless UNC ends up being significantly more than Wake, you should go with UNC.

[jackattack17]

1. You can mostly avoid the "college town" feel of Chapel Hill by living in South Durham or even Raleigh, either of which would be a fairly easy commute (and you'd be living close to RTP or passing it every day). I don't think that should be as determinative a factor.

2. Also, yes, Winston has Kilpatrick and Womble, but UNC still does well in Winston and better than Wake in Raleigh. There are also several biglaw firms that have little IP shops in RTP, and that would be much more accessible from UNC.

3. And there are externship opportunities from UNC that place you in-house at a few RTP biotech-type places.

Unless UNC ends up being significantly more than Wake, you should go with UNC.

Externship placements: http://www.law.unc.edu/academics/externship/sites/
GSK, Quintiles, RTI, IBM...

Not sure what Wake has to offer on that front.

[RonBurgundy]

1. You can mostly avoid the "college town" feel of Chapel Hill by living in South Durham or even Raleigh, either of which would be a fairly easy commute (and you'd be living close to RTP or passing it every day). I don't think that should be as determinative a factor.

2. Also, yes, Winston has Kilpatrick and Womble, but UNC still does well in Winston and better than Wake in Raleigh. There are also several biglaw firms that have little IP shops in RTP, and that would be much more accessible from UNC.

3. And there are externship opportunities from UNC that place you in-house at a few RTP biotech-type places.

Unless UNC ends up being significantly more than Wake, you should go with UNC.

Externship placements: http://www.law.unc.edu/academics/externship/sites/
GSK, Quintiles, RTI, IBM...

Not sure what Wake has to offer on that front.

Thanks for the info. I really hope I get a reasonable offer to UNC then.

I'll update the post with more $ specifics as I get them, Winston1984.

[androstan]

Assuming there isn't substantive differences in COA, this is an easy one...

UNC. The Winston-Salem Area is devoid of biotech or any sort of technology-oriented R&D. The research triangle in Raleigh would provide very unique and substantive opportunities with biotechnology firms (e.g., internships, networking, etc.). Furthermore, UNC is a true research institution whereas Wake is simply an undergraduate oriented private school. This fact has real practical implications relative to additional opportunities to take classes in substantive science, business, or medical courses at the graduate level and opportunities to work in the technology transfer office within UNC.

Huge mistake, based solely on your preferences, to select Wake.

Agree.

I'm from NC and went to undergrad in that area. I'm in IP.

[RonBurgundy]

So I got my scholarship offer but there are still some scenarios I am waiting to be clarified by the office in regards to my NC residency. Basically, including COL, Tuition, and everything else we have the following scenarios:

Wake is cheaper by 35k. Where do I go?

Wake is cheaper by 95k. Where do I go?

I think I am drawing the line right now at UNC for the first and Wake for the second. However, I have no way to quantify the monetary impact this will have on my future in regards to job prospects. I don't want to spend an extra 90k for nothing but I can easily it imagine being worth it in the long run. I would love any opinions as to what you would do in the above scenarios. Thanks again everyone!

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

They're peer schools. Go to whichever is cheaper. Even $35k is a ton if money (down payment on a house).

[AT9]

They're peer schools. Go to whichever is cheaper. Even $35k is a ton if money (down payment on a house).

I voted for UNC before seeing this - my mistake. In your situation I'd maybe do UNC for a little more, but probably not $35K and definitely not $90K.

[RonBurgundy]

They're peer schools. Go to whichever is cheaper. Even $35k is a ton if money (down payment on a house).

I voted for UNC before seeing this - my mistake. In your situation I'd maybe do UNC for a little more, but probably not $35K and definitely not $90K.

Thanks for the opinions. I definitely am not even considering the 90k scenario for UNC. For the other scenario I just want to make sure I don't degret some lost opportunity by going Winston-Salem. I'm gonna sit on this decision for a bit before submitting my deposit in the next few days.

[RonBurgundy]

So the office got to me. Ignore the above 90k scenario. I also updated the info in the OP so that nobody is confused. There is only one scenario:

UNC for an additional 35K (all three years) over Wake.

[androstan]

Given only those two options I would take UNC.

[McAvoy]

Retake June and ask for more money, though.

[RonBurgundy]

Retake June and ask for more money, though.

That is an intriguing option. I will search the forums for any history of people being successful doing this. Let me know if any examples come to mind. I would hate to part with the cash for the exam and the time studying if the chances for more money are slim. Especially when I am serious about not sitting out another cycle.

[McAvoy]

Retake June and ask for more money, though.

That is an intriguing option. I will search the forums for any history of people being successful doing this. Let me know if any examples come to mind. I would hate to part with the cash for the exam and the time studying if the chances for more money are slim. Especially when I am serious about not sitting out another cycle.

You've got nothing to lose. Your offer isn't going to get worse. If you do signficantly better, you've got great leverage to say: "Hey, I can now go to a lot better of a school next year. Why should I enroll here, again?"

[Tuxedo]

Retake June and ask for more money, though.

That is an intriguing option. I will search the forums for any history of people being successful doing this. Let me know if any examples come to mind. I would hate to part with the cash for the exam and the time studying if the chances for more money are slim. Especially when I am serious about not sitting out another cycle.

You've got nothing to lose. Your offer isn't going to get worse. If you do signficantly better, you've got great leverage to say: "Hey, I can now go to a lot better of a school next year. Why should I enroll here, again?"

@OP—this. I am doing the same thing after a very generous offer from Wake. I was initially very serious about law school this fall but I'm convinced that retaking makes more sense for a number of reasons.

I really only see two options from retaking:

1) You retake for the same score, or a lower score. You're out $$ for testing, but you know you did the best you possibly could. Peace of mind is worth the price. You'll still get into the same schools.

2) You retake and do better. Instead of looking at UNC and Wake, Duke is making you an offer. Instead of competing with the rest of your class for NC jobs, you're walking in to interviews with a T14 JD. Worth it.

[RonBurgundy]

Retake June and ask for more money, though.

That is an intriguing option. I will search the forums for any history of people being successful doing this. Let me know if any examples come to mind. I would hate to part with the cash for the exam and the time studying if the chances for more money are slim. Especially when I am serious about not sitting out another cycle.

You've got nothing to lose. Your offer isn't going to get worse. If you do signficantly better, you've got great leverage to say: "Hey, I can now go to a lot better of a school next year. Why should I enroll here, again?"

@OP—this. I am doing the same thing after a very generous offer from Wake. I was initially very serious about law school this fall but I'm convinced that retaking makes more sense for a number of reasons.

I really only see two options from retaking:

1) You retake for the same score, or a lower score. You're out $$ for testing, but you know you did the best you possibly could. Peace of mind is worth the price. You'll still get into the same schools.

2) You retake and do better. Instead of looking at UNC and Wake, Duke is making you an offer. Instead of competing with the rest of your class for NC jobs, you're walking in to interviews with a T14 JD. Worth it.

Great I definitely am going to do this in June. However, in the event nothing changes I will be choosing from the two I have. I also have to decide where to put down my deposits. I don't know if I can afford to put deposits at both and sign up for the LSAT. Will have to crunch some numbers.

[InTheHouse]

You'll get better advice on whether to retake if you actually post your numbers. Someone with a 3.1/170 probably isn't going to get any additional money from UCLA with a 173. But someone with a 3.8/165 could get a boatload of money with 168. Not all retakes are created equal.

[RonBurgundy]

You'll get better advice on whether to retake if you actually post your numbers. Someone with a 3.1/170 probably isn't going to get any additional money from UCLA with a 173. But someone with a 3.8/165 could get a boatload of money with 168. Not all retakes are created equal.

Gotcha. Since my score is lower than a 165 with a 3.6 GPA, I know that a few points will make a difference in my case. I just didn't want to get everyone trying to convince me retake and wait another year, haha.