Berkeley vs. Chicago. Please help! Forum

[draftopinions]

First time poster in my time of need. I'm incredibly grateful to have this problem, but I also don't know how to solve it.

Goals: I'd really like to clerk after law school and then do several years of big law before looking at moving to a nonprofit like the ACLU or EFF, and/or in-house in Silicon Valley (startups and established tech both okay). I want to practice in California. Not interested in IP; looking more at internet/communications & privacy law. I'm aware that these goals can change and I'm fairly risk-adverse, so I'd really prefer a flexible and nationally portable degree.

Ties to California: Raised in California and (engineering) undergrad at Berkeley. No ties elsewhere.

"Fit": I really connected with the materials Chicago sent me and how they talk about their values and culture. I haven't connected yet with other schools, including Berkeley, in that way. However, I haven't done a formal visit to either school yet. As someone possibly interested in in-house, I'm also interested in Chicago's Doctoroff program, especially if I'm looking at startups, though I get that Berkeley has an inherent advantage in Silicon Valley. Miscellaneously, I'm also curious about law and economics, and would like a student body that is politically diverse and includes a nontrivial number of libertarians, though these are mild concerns since I'm not sure how relevant this ought to be for picking law schools. PS, I really hated NYU's culture when I went for the ASW; not sure if this is relevant, but apply as appropriate.

Geography: I like California's climate and people and outdoors stuff. I've visited New York a few times in the winter for a week or two at a time and it's usually freezing. Also, perpetual cloudiness bothers me. Do people adapt to the weather? I have a long term relationship here in the Bay that is important to me, so moving would be really shitty, but we're willing to try long distance if going to Chicago turns out to be important. Additionally, I have a mental nagging to see what life is like outside of California as an experience (though I expect I'll want to come back for the long term), and I'm especially bored of Berkeley — both concerns that may or may not be relevant to picking law schools.

Monies: $45k at Chicago, don't know at Berkeley yet but I'm applying for their matching scholarship with $75k at NYU. I'll have parental support, but I'll be taking out some loans too, most likely. This isn't an overriding consideration for me, thankfully.

I'm really undecided and super stressed, so please let me know what you think!

[lecsa]

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[jbagelboy]

If Berkeley takes the matching scholarship, with that plus in-state, your goals, and personal circumstances, it's an easy choice. Chicago isn't worth $50K more than Cal for someone who wants to work in SV.

FYI Chicago weather is generally considered worse than New York. If you think NY was cold and shitty, Chicago winters are colder and shittier (although summers can be lovely).

I know you said money isn't an issue, but it sounds like it could be. How much "family support" are we talking about? If Berkeley offers zilch, which would honestly be surprising to me since you are targeting them with a higher ranked school and you're an alum, then Chicago is very much back on the table.

Chicago's primary advantage over Berkeley is in DC, NY, or Chicago biglaw or federal government work. That doesn't sound like a long-term goal for you.

Sidenote: legal hiring isn't like throwing darts. If you went into SF/SV biglaw, you couldn't then just switch to the ACLU. You would need a dedicated and well-tested PI resume and background to land such a prestigious job in the public sector. Fortunately with you for this choice, if you did decide to switch to PI, I think Berkeley would also offer just as much as Chicago here.

[Dignan]

I don't really understand your career goals - they are all over the place.

+1

If you have an academic or policy interest in law and economics, then Chicago is the better choice. If you feel like you need to spend three years outside of California, then, of course, Chicago is the better choice.

For just about everything else on your list, Berkeley is better.

By the way, you'll find libertarian types at Boalt. They tend towards the anarchist side of the libertarian spectrum (many end up interning or working at EFF!)—so they're probably not the same type of libertarian you would likely encounter at U Chi—but they're certainly not fond of state authority.

[NYC2012]

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[draftopinions]

Thanks for the responses so far — I look forward to reading more!

NYU might be full of spoiled, rich brats (is this what you mean by the culture)

From ASW, I felt that NYU students wouldn't push me to excel as much. I don't want to pass judgment on a whole student body, but I got the impression that other schools would be more pedal to the metal and intellectually interesting. But I was more interested in Chicago and Berkeley anyway.

I know you said money isn't an issue, but it sounds like it could be. How much "family support" are we talking about?

Well, I suppose you're right. Higher scholarships are definitely better, but I really do not want to decide where I go based on finances (and my parents have told me not to), unless two schools are basically even or there is a very large cost differential.

[Dignan]

Thanks for the responses so far — I look forward to reading more!

NYU might be full of spoiled, rich brats (is this what you mean by the culture)

From ASW, I felt that NYU students wouldn't push me to excel as much. I don't want to pass judgment on a whole student body, but I got the impression that other schools would be more pedal to the metal and intellectually interesting.

Uh-oh. I take my recommendation back: don't go to Boalt. Although the overall intellectual quality of the two student bodies will be similar, students with an attitude like yours tend not to fit in well at Boalt. Actually, you might not fit in all that well with that attitude at Chicago either, but I suspect you'll find a few more like-minded students there.

[Mack.Hambleton]

Also I doubt the spoiled rich brats thing applies as much to the law school right?