. Forum

[1e4]

.

[BigZuck]

Have full rides to Illinois (#40), Nebraska (#54), and Creighton (?), as well as a half ride to Minnesota (#20). Have ties to both Illinois and Nebraska. Not hellbent on big law, but at the same time don't want to be handcuffed later on, which makes MN's #20 ranking more appealing. Thoughts?

Minnesotas ranking is meaningless, it's a regional school that does fine in Minnesota and that's it. Choose between Illinois or Nebraska (I would go to wherever your strongest ties are).

[downinDtown]

Have full rides to Illinois (#40), Nebraska (#54), and Creighton (?), as well as a half ride to Minnesota (#20). Have ties to both Illinois and Nebraska. Not hellbent on big law, but at the same time don't want to be handcuffed later on, which makes MN's #20 ranking more appealing. Thoughts?

Don't look at rankings, look at potential employment outcomes relative to the costs incurred, i.e., does the additional cost to MN provide that much marginal benefit to you to forgo a full scholarship to Illinois? There may be other considerations that you didn't mention: family ties, where you want to end up living, etc. But just focusing on the COA, I don't think the additional debt (if you choose MN) provides you enough of an increase in job prospects that it's worth it.

So I recommend full-ride to Illinois. Easier access to the Chicago market (which you have a good chance of ending up in, but MSP is a much, much smaller market, so you might not even end up there if you go to MN, and if by chance you do crush LS and get good grades, Illinois makes it easier to get those high-end jobs: see http://www.[link redacted]/RyISbA - MN places less than 10% in BigLaw, while IL places over 21%), so it's actually regressive in that regard relative to the increased cost.

[1e4]

.

[Psy123]

because they are regional schools, go to the one that is in the state/area you want to work most.

[1e4]

.

[LeninLunchbox]

First of all, please please please include the information in the big READ BEFORE POSTING sticky. It makes this much easier.

Second of all, TLS-wisdom slightly overstates this, but rankings beyond about 18, USNWR rankings do not really matter. At all. What matters is employment. Please refer to Class of 2012 data https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... anc&gid=15 the last year for which we have full information, or the now trickling in CO 2013 data http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 1&t=226198

Third, with that in mind, understand that regardless of ranking, all these schools, like most, are regional. The law is very local business and you should usually try and go to school where you want to practice. MN's #20 ranking is not a ticket to NY/DC, most grads will be aiming to work in MN or nearby. Sure some of the top of the class there and at UIUC as well will to going to NYC biglaw, but don't go there counting on it. For example of the 199 2013 UIUC grads who found ANY type of employment, 138 of them work in the state of Illinois. For 2012, its 142 of 215 in MN for UMN. If you want to be free as a bird and work anywhere you want no "handcuffs" attached, you need to go a T14. Really you need to go to Harvard, Yale, or Stanford. So before the "OMG RETAKE" brigade gets here I will say that, yes, if you must have true geographic flexibility or a likely shot at biglaw/bigfed/etc, you need to retake and reapply.

But, if you are set on going this cycle, have some workable options. I would forget Creighton, it has some truly nightmarish employment stats and you have better offers. MN and UIUC have similar employment outcomes. Roughly 1/4 of the class gets biglaw and the next roughly 1/2 get actual lawyer jobs. Between them, decide if you'd rather work in IL or MN if a strong finger on the scale for IL as you have ties there which will help getting a job and a full ride which will help keep down debt. I would almost say UIUC is the only way to go as even 1/2 tuition debt at MN will be hard to service without biglaw which you have only a 1 in 4 shot at getting. The full ride will give you much more flexibility in terms of what kind of job you can take. Only if you absolutely want to practice in Nebraska, consider UNE. In 2012, literally not a single grad went to a firm over 100 lawyers. That should emphasis how focused on local small-law it is. That said, with ties and a full ride, it might make sense if that is exactly what you want to do, work at a small firm or DA's office in Lincoln or what not.

So, in conclusion, the answer is UIUC unless you very much prefer to work in Minnesota or Nebraska, in which case you should consider those states' flagship schools.

[1e4]

.

[AT9]

You don't seem to have ties to Minnesota but do two the other two states, and it's more expensive, so Minnesota is out (unless you very strongly prefer working there).

I don't know if you have stronger ties to either location, but since you don't have a preference right now, Illinois is generally regarded as a better school. Both law and otherwise. Illinois has better biglaw/fed clerkships and I'd think that if either were able to get you back to the other state, it would be Illinois to Nebraska and not vice versa.

[AT9]

You don't seem to have ties to Minnesota but do two the other two states, and it's more expensive, so Minnesota is out (unless you very strongly prefer working there).

I don't know if you have stronger ties to either location, but since you don't have a preference right now, Illinois is generally regarded as a better school. Both law and otherwise. Illinois has better biglaw/fed clerkships and I'd think that if either were able to get you back to the other state, it would be Illinois to Nebraska and not vice versa.

[LeninLunchbox]

Thank you! That was really informative!

You're very welcome.

because they are regional schools, go to the one that is in the state/area you want to work most.

Well yeah, I get that. The problem is I am indifferent at this point between living in Nebraska or Illinois. Is there one that will give me more opportunity objectively? Also, if I was able to get top10-20% at UIUC would the option of working in Nebraska still be on the table?

It doesn't seem impossible. I assume you are from there, that will be a huge help. That you went away to Illinois for school and now want to come back and settle down back home doesn't seem a hard sell. Clearly all the lawyers in Nebraska didn't go to UNE.

Here's the thing, Nebraska is a very small legal market. There's only 1.8 million people and no big firms in the whole state. It just doesn't work like the formal big firm hiring in Chicago or New York. How does it work? I have no idea. Who does? Lawyers in Nebraska. If you live there now, I imagine you might have friends or family who practice law in NE. Take advantage of this, pick their brains about it. Ask how they hire, if they look at other big-ten schools, if your ties are strong enough to overcome any perception you don't really want to work in NE. Ask as much as you can. If you really don't know any lawyers, you probably know someone who does. Definitely try to get in touch with one of them if practicing law in Nebraska is something you are interesting in pursuing.

[ohioguy99]

It has been said before, but all those schools are regional schools. Minnesota's rank is pretty meaningless. Yes, it might travel more than Illinois or Nebraska, but it won't travel so much more that it justifies the cost to attend.

Think about where you might want to live. Illinois probably has a better reputation and offers Chicago as a possible working location.

Nebraska likely limits you to smaller law but you also go to the biggest school in the state.

Perhaps visit both schools if you haven't already done so and if you really prefer one to the other go there.

[1e4]

.

[Nova]

One last thing, I just want to make sure, but I take it TLS is almost always in favor of taking a year off to try and get t14 over full rides to more midrange schools like UIUC? Just the vibe i've gotten around here. Seems somewhat of a close decision to me, as i'm debt adverse and it seems like if I take a year off and do get into a t14 it could be the case I have to pay sticker or close to it no?

depends on your goals and numbers

[BigZuck]

One last thing, I just want to make sure, but I take it TLS is almost always in favor of taking a year off to try and get t14 over full rides to more midrange schools like UIUC? Just the vibe i've gotten around here. Seems somewhat of a close decision to me, as i'm debt adverse and it seems like if I take a year off and do get into a t14 it could be the case I have to pay sticker or close to it no?

depends on your goals and numbers

Yeah, totally depends. You didn't address the items in the sticky at the top of this forum so there's really no way for us to give you proper advice.

[Tiago Splitter]

One last thing, I just want to make sure, but I take it TLS is almost always in favor of taking a year off to try and get t14 over full rides to more midrange schools like UIUC? Just the vibe i've gotten around here. Seems somewhat of a close decision to me, as i'm debt adverse and it seems like if I take a year off and do get into a t14 it could be the case I have to pay sticker or close to it no?

TLS recommends retaking and waiting a year to maximize your options. There is nothing wrong with choosing the regional full ride over a T14 for a lot of people. The great thing is that applicant numbers continue to decline and schools are obsessed with median maintenance so the big offers aren't going anywhere. With a better LSAT you'll have your existing options plus others.

[worldtraveler]

What do you want to do?

[1e4]

.

[rebexness]

If you went -12 ish on Lg, you should definitely strongly consider that retake. Especially if you have decent employment currently. LG is generally the easiest to improve upon, and it sounds like you didn't miss much of anything besides that, I believe.

Look at retaking October or even June, and applying next year.

[thebobs1987]

What do you want to do?

Honestly, i'm not sure yet. I'm passionate about the law, but most of all I want to keep my future options open. Based on this thread though it seems like probably my best option is either UIUC or re-take. I'd retake but I have already taken a year off and am getting old quickly. I am also a little worried that if I re-take I won't score as good as I did this year, because I'm not sure if my initial score was just lucky/variance. I took a practice course but only 1 actual practice test (which was pretty dumb on my part).

splitter mid160's LSAT for reference, with 50% correct on logic games.

I go to UIUC now. I was a splitter and wanted to limit debt. I also knew I wanted to be in Chicago. I am very happy with my decision. If you want to be in the midwest and are ok with the possibility of doing smaller law or state/local government then UIUC at a full ride is a great deal. As mentioned, UIUC has good big law numbers for a regional school, but definitely not something you can bank on.

If you are not sure what you want to do, taking another year off and retaking or at least figuring out what you really want to do is definitely not a bad thing.