FINAL: NYU ($) v. Duke ($$) v. HLS - LS22 needs your help Forum

[worldwithoutend]

Also, I get the feeling at Duke that the Big Law numbers were inflated by students with ties going to smaller markets throughout the South and the rest of the country. They sell it as "Duke grads go everywhere," but I personally interpret that as "Duke does not place grads particularly well in any market." Without ties to any secondary markets, especially in the South, it may be a more risky choice than the numbers let on.

I'd view this as a plus. Most of the big NYC firms are coming to Duke's OCI, and limited interest among an already small class makes NYC biglaw nearly automatic among those who gun for it. Similar story at NU I'm sure.

Duke grad chiming in. Having gone through this process, I'd agree with Tiago here. Most of the people in my class who ended up in smaller Southern markets did so because they targeted those markets, not because they couldn't get jobs in New York or DC. It takes more legwork to get a job in one of those smaller markets than it does to land an SA in New York or DC, and there was a not insignificant chunk of the class who wanted to stay in the South.
For people targeting NYC big law (like me), this was a good thing.

[rickgrimes69]

Also, I get the feeling at Duke that the Big Law numbers were inflated by students with ties going to smaller markets throughout the South and the rest of the country. They sell it as "Duke grads go everywhere," but I personally interpret that as "Duke does not place grads particularly well in any market." Without ties to any secondary markets, especially in the South, it may be a more risky choice than the numbers let on.

That's not really true. Duke still primarily places in NYC/DC/CA and has a ton of NYC firms at its OCI. A substantial portion goes to smaller markets, sure, but that's usually due to self selection: smaller markets are often as competitive, if not more so, than NYC. In other words, the kids going to smaller markets are doing so because they choose to, not because they couldn't get NYC.

[whereskyle]

I think the big thing here for LS22 is his goals. If you want D.C. Biglaw, go to HY. Don't count on it from any of the schools on your list. Duke and NU being peers, you should clearly go to NU for the opportunities presented by a metro location. Simple as that.

[Tiago Splitter]

I think the big thing here for LS22 is his goals. If you want D.C. Biglaw, go to HY. Don't count on it from any of the schools on your list. Duke and NU being peers, you should clearly go to NU for the opportunities presented by a metro location. Simple as that.

Oh god please tell me this "urban markets" BS isn't becoming a thing.

[whereskyle]

I think the big thing here for LS22 is his goals. If you want D.C. Biglaw, go to HY. Don't count on it from any of the schools on your list. Duke and NU being peers, you should clearly go to NU for the opportunities presented by a metro location. Simple as that.

Oh god please tell me this "urban markets" BS isn't becoming a thing.

Totally a thing in my mind. Where do UVA students do externships?

[californiauser]

Also, I get the feeling at Duke that the Big Law numbers were inflated by students with ties going to smaller markets throughout the South and the rest of the country. They sell it as "Duke grads go everywhere," but I personally interpret that as "Duke does not place grads particularly well in any market." Without ties to any secondary markets, especially in the South, it may be a more risky choice than the numbers let on.

I'd view this as a plus. Most of the big NYC firms are coming to Duke's OCI, and limited interest among an already small class makes NYC biglaw nearly automatic among those who gun for it. Similar story at NU I'm sure.

Duke grad chiming in. Having gone through this process, I'd agree with Tiago here. Most of the people in my class who ended up in smaller Southern markets did so because they targeted those markets, not because they couldn't get jobs in New York or DC. It takes more legwork to get a job in one of those smaller markets than it does to land an SA in New York or DC, and there was a not insignificant chunk of the class who wanted to stay in the South.
For people targeting NYC big law (like me), this was a good thing.

If you believe this, wouldn't you have to say this is true for UVA and Michigan as well?

[Tiago Splitter]

I think the big thing here for LS22 is his goals. If you want D.C. Biglaw, go to HY. Don't count on it from any of the schools on your list. Duke and NU being peers, you should clearly go to NU for the opportunities presented by a metro location. Simple as that.

Oh god please tell me this "urban markets" BS isn't becoming a thing.

Totally a thing in my mind. Where do UVA students do externships?

Lots of externships for NYLS and Touro students in NYC. Doesn't do them any good. And from any T-14 it's not hard to do a semester or more in DC.

[Law Sauce]

I think the big thing here for LS22 is his goals. If you want D.C. Biglaw, go to HY. Don't count on it from any of the schools on your list. Duke and NU being peers, you should clearly go to NU for the opportunities presented by a metro location. Simple as that.

Oh god please tell me this "urban markets" BS isn't becoming a thing.

Totally a thing in my mind. Where do UVA students do externships?

UVA people go to DC. But who cares about that? Most people do externships either because they want to build their resume because they don't already have a big law job lined up, or, they have different goals, like government or PI. If thats the issue, Duke people can full-time extern in DC, http://law.duke.edu/curriculum/dukedc/

[worldwithoutend]

Also, I get the feeling at Duke that the Big Law numbers were inflated by students with ties going to smaller markets throughout the South and the rest of the country. They sell it as "Duke grads go everywhere," but I personally interpret that as "Duke does not place grads particularly well in any market." Without ties to any secondary markets, especially in the South, it may be a more risky choice than the numbers let on.

I'd view this as a plus. Most of the big NYC firms are coming to Duke's OCI, and limited interest among an already small class makes NYC biglaw nearly automatic among those who gun for it. Similar story at NU I'm sure.

Duke grad chiming in. Having gone through this process, I'd agree with Tiago here. Most of the people in my class who ended up in smaller Southern markets did so because they targeted those markets, not because they couldn't get jobs in New York or DC. It takes more legwork to get a job in one of those smaller markets than it does to land an SA in New York or DC, and there was a not insignificant chunk of the class who wanted to stay in the South.
For people targeting NYC big law (like me), this was a good thing.

If you believe this, wouldn't you have to say this is true for UVA and Michigan as well?

It could be. I don't know much about the demographics at UVA and Michigan. I just know that, from my experience at Duke, for most of the students in my class who ended up in Southern or "secondary" markets, they ended up there because that's where they wanted to work.

[cotiger]

Funny how people who complain about segregation aren't willing to move to the ghetto.

I've done it. Not exactly a blast. But it's nice to live in a city where half of it isn't so bad that it's classified as "you should never go there."

[whereskyle]

I think the big thing here for LS22 is his goals. If you want D.C. Biglaw, go to HY. Don't count on it from any of the schools on your list. Duke and NU being peers, you should clearly go to NU for the opportunities presented by a metro location. Simple as that.

Oh god please tell me this "urban markets" BS isn't becoming a thing.

Totally a thing in my mind. Where do UVA students do externships?

UVA people go to DC. But who cares about that? Most people do externships either because they want to build their resume because they don't already have a big law job lined up, or, they have different goals, like government or PI. If thats the issue, Duke people can full-time extern in DC, http://law.duke.edu/curriculum/dukedc/

Yeah, will the fact that these D.C. externships are all Public Interest in nature provide any benefit for LS22's quest for D.C. Biglaw? It seems he's interested in BigFed as well, and these externships certainly provide a plus in that regard.

[iamgeorgebush]

honestly who cares about crime rates, it's not like you're gonna get mugged at northwestern or duke or nyu

[0913djp]

Take it for what it's worth but I do really think that NU is OP's best option. DC is very hard to crack (I am looking to go this route myself at CCN) and like most people have already stated, assume median (and thus, DC is a small shot).

Median at NU or Median at Duke likely means New York. That being said, Duke's program in DC could help OP. I just prefer taking the cheaper option and the fact that OP has Midwest ties will help with Chicago firms if he or she chooses to go that route as well.

NYU at that price is not worth it for OP's goals.

[rickgrimes69]

Also, I get the feeling at Duke that the Big Law numbers were inflated by students with ties going to smaller markets throughout the South and the rest of the country. They sell it as "Duke grads go everywhere," but I personally interpret that as "Duke does not place grads particularly well in any market." Without ties to any secondary markets, especially in the South, it may be a more risky choice than the numbers let on.

I'd view this as a plus. Most of the big NYC firms are coming to Duke's OCI, and limited interest among an already small class makes NYC biglaw nearly automatic among those who gun for it. Similar story at NU I'm sure.

Duke grad chiming in. Having gone through this process, I'd agree with Tiago here. Most of the people in my class who ended up in smaller Southern markets did so because they targeted those markets, not because they couldn't get jobs in New York or DC. It takes more legwork to get a job in one of those smaller markets than it does to land an SA in New York or DC, and there was a not insignificant chunk of the class who wanted to stay in the South.
For people targeting NYC big law (like me), this was a good thing.

If you believe this, wouldn't you have to say this is true for UVA and Michigan as well?

I'd say it's true for UVA, but not for Michigan because Michigan largely relied on Chicago and that market got hammered and still hasn't recovered. UVA/Duke are much more NYC focused.

[Law Sauce]

UVA people go to DC. But who cares about that? Most people do externships either because they want to build their resume because they don't already have a big law job lined up, or, they have different goals, like government or PI. If thats the issue, Duke people can full-time extern in DC, http://law.duke.edu/curriculum/dukedc/

Yeah, will the fact that these D.C. externships are all Public Interest in nature provide any benefit for LS22's quest for D.C. Biglaw? It seems he's interested in BigFed as well, and these externships certainly provide a plus in that regard.

No probably no help to OP for DC big law. Also you could probably make the same thing happen at NU or any t14 if you wanted. http://www.law.northwestern.edu/legalcl ... udentopps/

[whereskyle]

Take it for what it's worth but I do really think that NU is OP's best option. DC is very hard to crack (I am looking to go this route myself at CCN) and like most people have already stated, assume median (and thus, DC is a small shot).

Median at NU or Median at Duke likely means New York. That being said, Duke's program in DC could help OP. I just prefer taking the cheaper option and the fact that OP has Midwest ties will help with Chicago firms if he or she chooses to go that route as well.

NYU at that price is not worth it for OP's goals.

I think a convincing argument is that NU coupled with OP's Midwest ties makes Chicago a realistic opportunity, while the same cannot be said for Duke. Assuming NYC and DC are equally possible from Duke and NU, more doors are opened overall by NU. If OP is dead set on D.C., shouldn't he go somewhere else? Can he not get HYS with the 3.6? Are these his best choices?

[cotiger]

Take it for what it's worth but I do really think that NU is OP's best option. DC is very hard to crack (I am looking to go this route myself at CCN) and like most people have already stated, assume median (and thus, DC is a small shot).

Median at NU or Median at Duke likely means New York. That being said, Duke's program in DC could help OP. I just prefer taking the cheaper option and the fact that OP has Midwest ties will help with Chicago firms if he or she chooses to go that route as well.

NYU at that price is not worth it for OP's goals.

I think a convincing argument is that NU coupled with OP's Midwest ties makes Chicago a realistic opportunity, while the same cannot be said for Duke. Assuming NYC and DC are equally possible from Duke and NU, more doors are opened overall by NU. If OP is dead set on D.C., shouldn't he go somewhere else? Can he not get HYS with the 3.6? Are these his best choices?

I think OP would need to reeeeeally want DC and nothing else would do for H to be worth paying the extra $120k plus interest, even if he got in.

$250k debt is no no joke.

[lawschool22]

Take it for what it's worth but I do really think that NU is OP's best option. DC is very hard to crack (I am looking to go this route myself at CCN) and like most people have already stated, assume median (and thus, DC is a small shot).

Median at NU or Median at Duke likely means New York. That being said, Duke's program in DC could help OP. I just prefer taking the cheaper option and the fact that OP has Midwest ties will help with Chicago firms if he or she chooses to go that route as well.

NYU at that price is not worth it for OP's goals.

I think a convincing argument is that NU coupled with OP's Midwest ties makes Chicago a realistic opportunity, while the same cannot be said for Duke. Assuming NYC and DC are equally possible from Duke and NU, more doors are opened overall by NU. If OP is dead set on D.C., shouldn't he go somewhere else? Can he not get HYS with the 3.6? Are these his best choices?

As to your Harvard question, I have had an interview and escaped last weeks ding and WL wave, so I don't know what to think about that lol

[09042014]

Take it for what it's worth but I do really think that NU is OP's best option. DC is very hard to crack (I am looking to go this route myself at CCN) and like most people have already stated, assume median (and thus, DC is a small shot).

Median at NU or Median at Duke likely means New York. That being said, Duke's program in DC could help OP. I just prefer taking the cheaper option and the fact that OP has Midwest ties will help with Chicago firms if he or she chooses to go that route as well.

NYU at that price is not worth it for OP's goals.

I think a convincing argument is that NU coupled with OP's Midwest ties makes Chicago a realistic opportunity, while the same cannot be said for Duke. Assuming NYC and DC are equally possible from Duke and NU, more doors are opened overall by NU. If OP is dead set on D.C., shouldn't he go somewhere else? Can he not get HYS with the 3.6? Are these his best choices?

I think OP would need to reeeeeally want DC and nothing else would do for H to be worth paying the extra $120k plus interest, even if he got in.

$250k debt is no no joke.

120k for the pleasure of working in DC big law is fundamentally retarded.

[patogordo]

but what if he reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally wants DC?

[lawschool22]

Take it for what it's worth but I do really think that NU is OP's best option. DC is very hard to crack (I am looking to go this route myself at CCN) and like most people have already stated, assume median (and thus, DC is a small shot).

Median at NU or Median at Duke likely means New York. That being said, Duke's program in DC could help OP. I just prefer taking the cheaper option and the fact that OP has Midwest ties will help with Chicago firms if he or she chooses to go that route as well.

NYU at that price is not worth it for OP's goals.

I think a convincing argument is that NU coupled with OP's Midwest ties makes Chicago a realistic opportunity, while the same cannot be said for Duke. Assuming NYC and DC are equally possible from Duke and NU, more doors are opened overall by NU. If OP is dead set on D.C., shouldn't he go somewhere else? Can he not get HYS with the 3.6? Are these his best choices?

I think OP would need to reeeeeally want DC and nothing else would do for H to be worth paying the extra $120k plus interest, even if he got in.

$250k debt is no no joke.

120k for the pleasure of working in DC big law is fundamentally retarded.

Lol I agree. But what if the goal is federal goverent?

[09042014]

You'd have to KNOW:

1) thats what you want, long enough to cop dat 10 year forgivness

2) HLS is almost definitely going to get it for you.

But the number of pepeople I see wanting X but who then get scared into doing OCI ->SA-> biglaw is staggering.

I don't know if 2 is true. But don't listen to retarded 0Ls and 2Ls who say HYS >>>>>>>>> t14 to fed gov. It may be true, but idiots on TLS would be the last to know.

[lawschool22]

You'd have to KNOW:

1) thats what you want, long enough to cop dat 10 year forgivness

2) HLS is almost definitely going to get it for you.

But the number of pepeople I see wanting X but who then get scared into doing OCI ->SA-> biglaw is staggering.

I don't know if 2 is true. But don't listen to retarded 0Ls and 2Ls who say HYS >>>>>>>>> t14 to fed gov. It may be true, but idiots on TLS would be the last to know.

I agree on your last point. And basically what I have heard from current people practicing in fed gov have said that it is typically much easier to get fed gov after a few years in DC biglaw than straight out of LS.

Hence my goal of DC biglaw as a means to an end. And what you (and others) seem to be saying is that NYU doesn't offer much advantage there since it's probably going to come down to grades no matter where I go (other than HYS).

[Workingtitle]

Also an ignorant 0L here, but I want to throw my 2 cents in.

I think it's really down to NU and Duke. I can see where people are coming from about NYC giving more security, but to me none of what's been said so far comes close to being worth another 100K. Anyone who thinks that's going to be easily paid off and a distant memory shortly down the road is just wrong.

The reason I wanted to comment though was to say at this point I think you should start thinking more about quality of life, between Duke and NU I mean. We can all argue amongst ourselves where the better place to live is, but it's really something that is pretty unique to the individual. Maybe you will feel like you mesh better with the student body/faculty culture one place, or maybe you will absolutely love/hate the vibe of one of the cities.

I say between NU and Duke go where you think you'll be the most happy, because coming from either one you're going to have to have the grades to get to DC. You might as well go where you'll have the best time for 3 years.

[cotiger]

but what if he reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally wants DC?

Well, then a debt level that requires him to put all of his disposable income from biglaw for 5-6 years into getting back to a zero net worth TOTALLY MAKES SENSE.