How important are ties in finding jobs? Forum

The Dark Shepard · Post by **The Dark Shepard** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:57 pm

Basically, I'm choosing between a couple high-ranked, strong regional schools(both T25). I myself don't really consider anywhere "home" since I've moved around a lot in my life, but in one of the two places I have a lot of family ties. I know ties are always mentioned when picking schools but is that because people want to move back to the place after school, or does that affect job placement too? The other place I have no ties and no connections in the area, but I wouldn't mind ending up there. It's also a bit cheaper. But would I be at a disadvantage in terms of finding a job(all else being equal) because they fear I might leave?

PepperJack · Post by **PepperJack** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:09 pm

The Dark Shepard wrote:Basically, I'm choosing between a couple high-ranked, strong regional schools(both T25). I myself don't really consider anywhere "home" since I've moved around a lot in my life, but in one of the two places I have a lot of family ties. I know ties are always mentioned when picking schools but is that because people want to move back to the place after school, or does that affect job placement too? The other place I have no ties and no connections in the area, but I wouldn't mind ending up there. It's also a bit cheaper. But would I be at a disadvantage in terms of finding a job(all else being equal) because they fear I might leave?

It'd help to know the schools. Generally going to school at WUSTL for St. Louis is considered to be a sufficiently good tie, but they're going to ask why you chose it. Personally, I don't understand why they're as relevant as they are. It's not like students are leaving America to go to Cambodia for 30 years. However, you will be asked and need to have a good honest answer. Good luck!

PDaddy · Post by **PDaddy** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:21 pm

Ties can be very important, because many employers want assurances that you are in for the long-haul. I don't think lack of ties are deal-breakers in every situation. Other factors have to come into play, starting with the employer's enthusiasm about you. But I won't lie, I have heard that some firms take a hard line on ties unless you are that rare applicant that they just gotta have. I don't think a great percentage operate that way.

Don't expect to be shut out of large markets like New York just because you have no ties, because I don't think firms in those markets care as much. If you're looking at a southern market (excluding Miami) or a northern mid-market, like Columbus, OH or Seattle, WA, I think ties matter more. They just want to make sure you will commit. Assessing your familiarity with the market or your emotional reasons for wanting to be there helps them gage your commitment level.

If you're applying to firms in LA, NY, Chicago, D.C., what do they care about ties? The typical applicant for firms in those cities knows what he's getting into. They will care but not nearly as much.

The Dark Shepard · Post by **The Dark Shepard** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:35 pm

Sorry. Should have given details.

Two schools are Minnesota and William and Mary. W&M's a bit cheaper, but I don't have ties there. Minnesota is where a large amount of my family lives, but to be honest, that isn't that big a deal to me. I wouldn't mind ending up long term in Minnesota or Virginia. Maybe a slight preference to Minnesota but nothing substantial. W&M would also theoretically get me closer to DC, though I'm obviously not counting on it

PDaddy · Post by **PDaddy** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:58 am

The Dark Shepard wrote:Sorry. Should have given details.

Two schools are Minnesota and William and Mary. W&M's a bit cheaper, but I don't have ties there. Minnesota is where a large amount of my family lives, but to be honest, that isn't that big a deal to me. I wouldn't mind ending up long term in Minnesota or Virginia. Maybe a slight preference to Minnesota but nothing substantial. W&M would also theoretically get me closer to DC, though I'm obviously not counting on it

W & M isn't a "local" school; it's a "regional" school, which means that it is possible to work in NY or D.C. as well as Virginia. I don't know about Philly.

Minnesota is considered to be regional as well, but I can envision only two worthwhile markets being realistically accessible from there: Minneapolis and Chicago.

Consult with the CSO's at both schools and inquire about the firms that recruit on their campuses if you are set on attending one of them. Having said that, you wouldn't catch me dead at either school without a very...VERY hefty $$$ package.

buffalo_ · Post by **buffalo_** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:09 am

If you are a man, you will need to wear a tie to the interview. If you are a woman, it probably isn't so important.

thebobs1987 · Post by **thebobs1987** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:37 am

PDaddy wrote:
The Dark Shepard wrote:Sorry. Should have given details.

Two schools are Minnesota and William and Mary. W&M's a bit cheaper, but I don't have ties there. Minnesota is where a large amount of my family lives, but to be honest, that isn't that big a deal to me. I wouldn't mind ending up long term in Minnesota or Virginia. Maybe a slight preference to Minnesota but nothing substantial. W&M would also theoretically get me closer to DC, though I'm obviously not counting on it
W & M isn't a "local" school; it's a "regional" school, which means that it is possible to work in NY or D.C. as well as Virginia. I don't know about Philly.

Minnesota is considered to be regional as well, but I can envision only two worthwhile markets being realistically accessible from there: Minneapolis and Chicago.

Consult with the CSO's at both schools and inquire about the firms that recruit on their campuses if you are set on attending one of them. Having said that, you wouldn't catch me dead at either school without a very...VERY hefty $$$ package.

I don't think that OP should count on being able to leave from either. For Minnesota to get Chicago you need to be top 10% and I am assuming WM for DC and NY probably needs close to that as well.

In terms of ties, I can only speak for Minnesota having lived there and had many friends that went to Minnesota law. Going to Minnesota and having family there will probably be enough.

Jay2716 · Post by **Jay2716** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:05 pm

PepperJack wrote:
The Dark Shepard wrote:Basically, I'm choosing between a couple high-ranked, strong regional schools(both T25). I myself don't really consider anywhere "home" since I've moved around a lot in my life, but in one of the two places I have a lot of family ties. I know ties are always mentioned when picking schools but is that because people want to move back to the place after school, or does that affect job placement too? The other place I have no ties and no connections in the area, but I wouldn't mind ending up there. It's also a bit cheaper. But would I be at a disadvantage in terms of finding a job(all else being equal) because they fear I might leave?
It'd help to know the schools. Generally going to school at WUSTL for St. Louis is considered to be a sufficiently good tie, but they're going to ask why you chose it. Personally, I don't understand why they're as relevant as they are. It's not like students are leaving America to go to Cambodia for 30 years. However, you will be asked and need to have a good honest answer. Good luck!

Going to WUSTL is, without question, not a sufficiently good tie to break into St. Louis. I know OP said it's not WUSTL, but I didn't want any 0Ls to to read this and think otherwise. It's probably easier to land A V20 from WUSTL than St. Louis biglaw without at least MO ties.

skrzypce · Post by **skrzypce** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:51 pm

buffalo_ wrote:If you are a man, you will need to wear a tie to the interview. If you are a woman, it probably isn't so important.

lol

Jchance · Post by **Jchance** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:52 pm

buffalo_ wrote:If you are a man, you will need to wear a tie to the interview. If you are a woman, it probably isn't so important.

funny

Lord Randolph McDuff · Post by **Lord Randolph McDuff** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:01 pm

Going to a regional school is a "tie" to the area. If the regional school scams it's students by telling them that they will all be marketable all over the country, local employers might question the "tie."

Generally students only attend regional schools if they want to work in that region, and employers know this.

PepperJack · Post by **PepperJack** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:45 pm

IDK if W&M's region extends to NY even for the top 10%. It was the first school I got into during my cycle, and I was told that it would be a worse choice for getting to NY than Emory, USC, WUSTL and Notre Dame by a big law partner. Granted, this was 1 firm but NY isn't W&M's market. I'm sorry about WUSTL. I didn't know that.

Jay2716 · Post by **Jay2716** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:08 pm

PepperJack wrote:IDK if W&M's region extends to NY even for the top 10%. It was the first school I got into during my cycle, and I was told that it would be a worse choice for getting to NY than Emory, USC, WUSTL and Notre Dame by a big law partner. Granted, this was 1 firm but NY isn't W&M's market. I'm sorry about WUSTL. I didn't know that.

No problem, I agree it's true for most schools, but people go to WUSTL expecting to leave, and employers seem to assume without ties you're using St. Louis as a fall back. I think WUSTL is maybe unique in its inability to confer ties to someone who has none.

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