Want top Vault firms, Uchi v. NU Forum

[Dellas623]

Due to my family, I have to stay in Chicago for law school.

However, for my employment, I would like to shoot for top vault firms in Chicago or New York.

Of course, by this time next year, I could be begging around for any market paying jobs, but considering my current goal for landing in higher vault firms, would 120k difference make a case for uchi?

Also, since I'm putting in NU here, I would also like to add that I have 1 year of working experience but not an "extensive" WEs that most NU students would have (which I believe could put me at disadvantage in NU's OCI).

Thanks.

[jbagelboy]

Chicago kills it at Kirkland (top chicago firm). You should be able to negotiate up to $75k from UChi. At this cost I'd still go to NU, but Chi definitely claims superiority in top vault.

[kaiser]

At that price difference, I'd choose Northwestern. Chicago places more students into the most elite firms, but how much are you really willing to pay to justify the marginal benefit? No doubt I'd be willing to pay more for Chicago, but 120K more? Def not.

[rpupkin]

Why do you want a "higher Vault" firm? This is not like the USNWR rankings, where the rankings of the top 20 law schools correlates (more or less) with the quality of the opportunities you'll have.

The Vault rankings are driven largely by NYC-centric corporate practices. If, say, you're interested in litigation in Chicago, there are lower-Vault-ranked (or non-ranked) offices that will be more "prestigious"--and, more importantly, give you higher quality work and better exit opportunities--than the offices of many "V20" firms.

[Dellas623]

Why do you want a "higher Vault" firm? This is not like the USNWR rankings, where the rankings of the top 20 law schools correlates (more or less) with the quality of the opportunities you'll have.

The Vault rankings are driven largely by NYC-centric corporate practices. If, say, you're interested in litigation in Chicago, there are lower-Vault-ranked (or non-ranked) offices that will be more "prestigious"--and, more importantly, give you higher quality work and better exit opportunities--than the offices of many "V20" firms.

Sorry for the ambiguity. I meant firms that would likely to give better and flexible exit options after 3~5 years, and since I'm looking into transaction, my assumption was in general, higher the better.

[kaiser]

Why do you want a "higher Vault" firm? This is not like the USNWR rankings, where the rankings of the top 20 law schools correlates (more or less) with the quality of the opportunities you'll have.

The Vault rankings are driven largely by NYC-centric corporate practices. If, say, you're interested in litigation in Chicago, there are lower-Vault-ranked (or non-ranked) offices that will be more "prestigious"--and, more importantly, give you higher quality work and better exit opportunities--than the offices of many "V20" firms.

Sorry for the ambiguity. I meant firms that would likely to give better and flexible exit options after 3~5 years, and since I'm looking into transaction, my assumption was in general, higher the better.

Again, not necessarily true. It all varies based on locale. In Chicago, certain firms will have an exceptionally high level of prestige that may not necessarily be reflected in rankings such as Vault. And firms aren't like schools. If you have 3-5 years of great experience at a reputable firm (even if not the most elite of elite), your exit opportunities could be endless. It is not uncommon at all for people to leave their first firm and then move to a firm that is higher in "prestige". On the flipside, many people move to firms that are lower in "prestige". This is because, once you build up that experience, its much more about fit than anything else.

[PDaddy]

Have fun at NU! Consider a JD/MBA or at least taking significant courses at Kellogg while you are there. Because they tend to be slightly older and a bit more experienced, some students interested in NU with the prospect of going into corporate law should consider the three-year JD/MBA route. You only need to take the GMAT and apply via Kellogg (though both committees still view your application). The LSAT is optional; that's sweet.

[Dellas623]

Why do you want a "higher Vault" firm? This is not like the USNWR rankings, where the rankings of the top 20 law schools correlates (more or less) with the quality of the opportunities you'll have.

The Vault rankings are driven largely by NYC-centric corporate practices. If, say, you're interested in litigation in Chicago, there are lower-Vault-ranked (or non-ranked) offices that will be more "prestigious"--and, more importantly, give you higher quality work and better exit opportunities--than the offices of many "V20" firms.

Sorry for the ambiguity. I meant firms that would likely to give better and flexible exit options after 3~5 years, and since I'm looking into transaction, my assumption was in general, higher the better.

Again, not necessarily true. It all varies based on locale. In Chicago, certain firms will have an exceptionally high level of prestige that may not necessarily be reflected in rankings such as Vault. And firms aren't like schools. If you have 3-5 years of great experience at a reputable firm (even if not the most elite of elite), your exit opportunities could be endless. It is not uncommon at all for people to leave their first firm and then move to a firm that is higher in "prestige". On the flipside, many people move to firms that are lower in "prestige". This is because, once you build up that experience, its much more about fit than anything else.

Thanks for the advice. It lifts some pressure on my aim for elite firms. ITE, I was little afraid of some of the possible exit options after the first biglaw. I'll remember it when it comes the time to bid on OCI.

[PrideandGlory1776]

150k at Northwestern don't know if you recently saw there latest employment data but they totally crushed 500+ firm jobs (141 of the 284 49.64% got 500+ size firms) almost as much as UChi with 116/215 53.95% 500+) so literally almost identical. If you get 90k at Chicago that'd probably change my opinion but as for now - oh my goodness 150k @Northwestern here by a mile!

[star fox]

Don't pay over 100 K more to get the same job

[WheninLaw]

Definitely NU unless you can get the Chicago scholarship up to $100K. Chicago does significantly better at top firms/boutiques, but that is absolutely not worth the current difference in price.

[20141023]

.

[bdubs]

Northwestern probably has more graduates stay in Chicago than UoC does. Representation among NU and UoC among the top Chicago firms tends to be pretty comparable. (i.e. Kirkland regularly hires as many and often more NU grads than UoC grads)

Top NY firms hire huge summer classes and both NU and Chicago regularly have offers go out throughout the V10. There probably isn't an appreciable difference between the two at those firms.

A reasonable person could choose NU with a minimal scholarship difference, but the huge difference you're facing makes it a slam dunk. Take NU and don't look back.

[lawschool22]

NU no question given your goals. I don't know why the poll is as close as it even is.

[09042014]

Northwestern probably has more graduates stay in Chicago than UoC does. Representation among NU and UoC among the top Chicago firms tends to be pretty comparable. (i.e. Kirkland regularly hires as many and often more NU grads than UoC grads)

Top NY firms hire huge summer classes and both NU and Chicago regularly have offers go out throughout the V10. There probably isn't an appreciable difference between the two at those firms.

A reasonable person could choose NU with a minimal scholarship difference, but the huge difference you're facing makes it a slam dunk. Take NU and don't look back.

IMO it's really only at the top NYC firms where there is any significant difference. Firms in Chicago treat them more or less equally. Non top firms treat them the similar too.

If you are dumb enough to pay 120k more for U of C, you are probably going to strike out at OCI anyway. At least you should.

[WheninLaw]

Northwestern probably has more graduates stay in Chicago than UoC does. Representation among NU and UoC among the top Chicago firms tends to be pretty comparable. (i.e. Kirkland regularly hires as many and often more NU grads than UoC grads)

Top NY firms hire huge summer classes and both NU and Chicago regularly have offers go out throughout the V10. There probably isn't an appreciable difference between the two at those firms.

A reasonable person could choose NU with a minimal scholarship difference, but the huge difference you're facing makes it a slam dunk. Take NU and don't look back.

IMO it's really only at the top NYC firms where there is any significant difference. Firms in Chicago treat them more or less equally. Non top firms treat them the similar too.

If you are dumb enough to pay 120k more for U of C, you are probably going to strike out at OCI anyway. At least you should.

I think this is mostly true, but not completely accurate. "Prestigious" non-NY certainly do not treat the schools equally. Munger, for example, gave CBs to 7 Chicago students and 2 from NU. Those numbers are similar for other firms as well (W&C, Irell, etc). In Chicago, though, I think they are equals. Kirkland is 17 UoC/13 NU this summer.

edit: I think it would be nuts to pay 120k (or $120 at that) for a better chance at the firms above.