Alabama v Richmond Forum

[zippernicus]

I'm still waiting to hear back from a few other schools, but it looks like these 2 will probably be what I am ultimately choosing between.

The total cost of attendance for both will be around 30,000 for all three years. 30000/yr scholarship from Richmond. In-state tuition, plus 10000/yr scholarship at Alabama. (Would be 15000/yr if I don't get in-state, but with spouse's employment, its highly likely.) Cost of living covered by spouse, so no additional expenses. Tuition would be financed by loans.

From the Southeast and would like to stay in the SE, but not a strong preference on state. General career goals are a mid-sized firm in a mid-sized city (150-500k population), although I haven't ruled out PI completely. Splitter, 2.5 168. Significant work experience.

I love Richmond, but think Alabama might offer better employment prospects in general. Thoughts?

[timbs4339]

Alabama no question.

[Marquis]

Any stips on the Bama scholly?

[zippernicus]

Any stips on the Bama scholly?

Top 50% stip.

[timbs4339]

Any stips on the Bama scholly?

Top 50% stip.

I lied, there's a question. Can you get the stip knocked down to good standing or top 80%?

[KatyMarie]

Get that stip knocked off the Alabama scholarship and then go there. They've been really generous with scholarships, and may be willing to work with you

[Marquis]

Any stips on the Bama scholly?

Top 50% stip.

Yeah, you gotta see if you can negotiate that stip down to something like "good academic standing". According to Bama's own website ~half of the students offered scholarships lose them. You can't make this decision under the assumption you will remain in the top 50%. So when calculating your COA, only apply the scholly to the first year unless you can get them to remove it. If they do remove or lighten up on the stipulation, then I think the decision is Bama by a mile. No contest based on your goals.

[Robbin Blue]

Get that stip knocked off the Alabama scholarship and then go there. They've been really generous with scholarships, and may be willing to work with you

I think the general consensus regarding Bama scholarships is that they are willing to increase the amount, but are not willing to decrease the stipulations. All of their scholarships have that 50% stipulation, except their Dean's scholar award.

[KatyMarie]

Get that stip knocked off the Alabama scholarship and then go there. They've been really generous with scholarships, and may be willing to work with you

I think the general consensus regarding Bama scholarships is that they are willing to increase the amount, but are not willing to decrease the stipulations. All of their scholarships have that 50% stipulation, except their Dean's scholar award.

For real? Eek. Can't count on a scholarship w/ that kind of stipulation at all.

Do you have any other options OP?

[zippernicus]

For real? Eek. Can't count on a scholarship w/ that kind of stipulation at all.

Do you have any other options OP?

In at WUSTL, but scholarship is negligible. SMU with 20k/yr. Given my goals though, I am not sure either of those are better choices. Still waiting to hear from WFU, W&M, UNC and Emory. The more time that passes the less positive I am feeling about those options.

[BigZuck]

Keep in mind that you probably won't get a job at a midsized firm. Be prepared for like a 50-60k job as a best case scenario.

Of these two, I guess Bama? What are your ties to that state?

[Tuxedo]

OP—Tuscaloosa is pretty close to Birmingham and plenty of Bama grads go there. But be prepared to network like crazy—my college roommate (we were at Auburn) when to UA Law and has a job he really enjoys and is compensated well, although I'm pretty sure it's at a small-mid size firm. He was very involved in campus and lived in Alabama his whole life, and so I'm sure some of those networks that landed him the job were already in place.

As much as I hate Nick Saban, btw, I imagine if I could bring myself to root for Bama I'd have a hell of a time enjoying the fall in Tuscaloosa.

[BankruptMe]

Do not go to Richmond unless you want to stay in Richmond/Central VA area

[zippernicus]

Keep in mind that you probably won't get a job at a midsized firm. Be prepared for like a 50-60k job as a best case scenario.

Of these two, I guess Bama? What are your ties to that state?

Close friends and extended family. All of the friends are Alabama Law grads, so I guess thats a plus. To be honest, not even sure where the line between small, mid, big falls...

[SLS_AMG]

Do not go to Richmond unless you want to stay in Richmond/Central VA area

Similarly, don't go to Bama unless you want to be stuck in Alabama. So, basically decide whether you'd rather be in the Richmond area or in Alabama, taking into account Bama has better placement where it does place (read: Alabama).

[zippernicus]

Do not go to Richmond unless you want to stay in Richmond/Central VA area

Similarly, don't go to Bama unless you want to be stuck in Alabama. So, basically decide whether you'd rather be in the Richmond area or in Alabama, taking into account Bama has better placement where it does place (read: Alabama).

Not arguing with these views at all, but just curious... are these from personal experience, or just based on employment data published by the school?

I would be happy living in Birmingham or Richmond, so this is probably ok with me either way....

[BigZuck]

Do not go to Richmond unless you want to stay in Richmond/Central VA area

Similarly, don't go to Bama unless you want to be stuck in Alabama. So, basically decide whether you'd rather be in the Richmond area or in Alabama, taking into account Bama has better placement where it does place (read: Alabama).

Not arguing with these views at all, but just curious... are these from personal experience, or just based on employment data published by the school?

I would be happy living in Birmingham or Richmond, so this is probably ok with me either way....

Source: how law school hiring basically works at regional schools

[zippernicus]

Not arguing with these views at all, but just curious... are these from personal experience, or just based on employment data published by the school?

I would be happy living in Birmingham or Richmond, so this is probably ok with me either way....

Source: how law school hiring basically works at regional schools

Thank you, dear sir! Very helpful! Perhaps you could provide me with a formal citation to further aid me in making my decision?

[BigZuck]

Not arguing with these views at all, but just curious... are these from personal experience, or just based on employment data published by the school?

I would be happy living in Birmingham or Richmond, so this is probably ok with me either way....

Source: how law school hiring basically works at regional schools

Thank you, dear sir! Very helpful! Perhaps you could provide me with a formal citation to further aid me in making my decision?

By all means ignore it and assume no one here knows what they're talking about when they speak from personal experience/collective common knowledge. It really doesn't matter to us one way or the other.

You asked, I gave you the correct answer. I can't force you to believe it, nor do I care if you do.

[zippernicus]

Not arguing with these views at all, but just curious... are these from personal experience, or just based on employment data published by the school?

I would be happy living in Birmingham or Richmond, so this is probably ok with me either way....

Source: how law school hiring basically works at regional schools

Thank you, dear sir! Very helpful! Perhaps you could provide me with a formal citation to further aid me in making my decision?

By all means ignore it and assume no one here knows what they're talking about when they speak from personal experience/collective common knowledge. It really doesn't matter to us one way or the other.

You asked, I gave you the correct answer. I can't force you to believe it, nor do I care if you do.

My question, if you will re-read it, is whether they speak from personal experience or collective knowledge. I am literate, able to read posts on TLS, read employment statistics myself, and value the collective knowledge of these forums.

I asked 2 earlier posters if their responses were from personal experience because I was interested in hearing about their experiences/anecdotes if so. You failed to answer that question, but if you do have personal experience (at either Alabama or Richmond) or know anyone who does, I am all ears. I would also be interested to hear from other people. I also don't see any reason why you would think I assume no one here knows what they are talking about. harrumph.

[skw]

Between Alabama and Richmond, I'd go 'bama. There are more options for mid law there and having spent time in both, I just like AL better. An AL degree is going to travel anywhere in the state and to border states, but Richmond basically gives you ONLY Richmond as an option (absent being at the literal top of the class). All that said, don't count yourself out at Carolina. UNC is notoriously SLOW on decisions. But in the interest of full disclosure, I am at UNC as a 3L and LOVE the school; and a degree from UNC (or Wake) is def portable to Richmond or AL. But, at $30k COA (assuming a fully supportive spouse) you are already in a great position. Good luck to you:-)

[zippernicus]

Between Alabama and Richmond, I'd go 'bama. There are more options for mid law there and having spent time in both, I just like AL better. An AL degree is going to travel anywhere in the state and to border states, but Richmond basically gives you ONLY Richmond as an option (absent being at the literal top of the class). All that said, don't count yourself out at Carolina. UNC is notoriously SLOW on decisions. But in the interest of full disclosure, I am at UNC as a 3L and LOVE the school; and a degree from UNC (or Wake) is def portable to Richmond or AL. But, at $30k COA (assuming a fully supportive spouse) you are already in a great position. Good luck to you:-)

Thanks skw! I actually was admitted to Wake today and UNC was the last school I applied to, so who knows. Both my sisters went to UNC for undergrad and loved Chapel Hill. I guess I shouldn't get to ahead of myself. I am leaning strongly towards Alabama though, in part because I loved it when I visited.

[KatyMarie]

I asked 2 earlier posters if their responses were from personal experience because I was interested in hearing about their experiences/anecdotes if so. You failed to answer that question, but if you do have personal experience (at either Alabama or Richmond) or know anyone who does, I am all ears. I would also be interested to hear from other people. I also don't see any reason why you would think I assume no one here knows what they are talking about. harrumph.

I don't know what you don't think BigZuck answered for you. I thought he was pretty clear about it personally...that is the way it's going to work if you go to a regional school. If you want hard numbers, go to law school transparency and take a look...it's all there. If you go to either of these schools, odds are, you're going to stay in the region. If you have a decent scholarship and that's what you want to do and where you want to be, that's a fine option. You just need to know that you aren't going to travel to whatever market you want once you graduate from either of these schools.

[zippernicus]

I asked 2 earlier posters if their responses were from personal experience because I was interested in hearing about their experiences/anecdotes if so. You failed to answer that question, but if you do have personal experience (at either Alabama or Richmond) or know anyone who does, I am all ears. I would also be interested to hear from other people. I also don't see any reason why you would think I assume no one here knows what they are talking about. harrumph.

I don't know what you don't think BigZuck answered for you. I thought he was pretty clear about it personally...that is the way it's going to work if you go to a regional school. If you want hard numbers, go to law school transparency and take a look...it's all there. If you go to either of these schools, odds are, you're going to stay in the region. If you have a decent scholarship and that's what you want to do and where you want to be, that's a fine option. You just need to know that you aren't going to travel to whatever market you want once you graduate from either of these schools.

Yep, again, asked whether their answers were based on stats or personal experience. Which again, wasn't really answered. I was provided with a condescending, generalized and not very helpful response. Law school transparency is great and is one of the many great resources I learned about through TLS, but has limitations, which is why I asked if responses were from personal experience. I think its important to use all data possible in making such a big decision, both quantitative and qualitative.

[Mauve.Dino]

Not sure if these will help, but lawschoolnumbers.com indicate states/types of employment of their graduates:

http://alabama.lawschoolnumbers.com/
http://richmond.lawschoolnumbers.com/

or, just look at the employment stats recently released from each school--they break it down by type/size of firm, as well:

http://www.law.ua.edu/career-services/ - Alabama stats
http://law.richmond.edu/career/outcomes.html (note: Richmond hasn't released their 2013 info, yet)

Really, the advice in this thread is legit, though.