UPDATE: Cornell (105k) v Fordham (full) v BC (105k) Forum

[savepslf]

Longtime lurker here looking for some advice from you lovely folks. I'm going into public service law (absolutely zero interest in biglaw). I would like to eventually end up in New England (where I have professional ties), though I'd be happy with the tri-state area too. My S.O. goes to med school near NYC.

Everything would be funded by loans; I have no savings and no family help. I've narrowed down my current options to the following:

Cornell (35k/yr) COA: $170,782
BC (35k/year) COA: $130,154
Fordham (full tuition named scholarship) COA: $57,186 (lower because I'd be living with S.O.)

For what it's worth, I've been held at Columbia and haven't heard a peep from NYU (which was my top choice). I'm assuming waitlist for both (based on other cycle results) and am curious if anyone thinks either of these at sticker, off-the-waitlist would be worth it. I've applied to other schools and been either accepted or waitlisted, but am not considering them because of location and/or money.

There are a couple significant factors that I'm not mentioning here, partially because I want to get some less skewed opinions and partially because I don't want to out myself (they're pretty identifying factors). Feel free to PM if you want more details.

*Edited with updated numbers*

[BigZuck]

Fordham

[twenty]

Unless you have a really compelling reason not to attend BU, that's probably your best option followed closely by Fordham.

EDIT> Actually, Fordham might > BU depending on what kind of PI gig you're looking for.

Unless you want prestigious PI, don't do Columbia or NYU. And if you do, only do Columbia or NYU.

[PrideandGlory1776]

If you got waitlisted at Columbia and NYU there's no way in the world you won't get money at Cornell

[0913djp]

Did you apply for BC's PI scholarship? Otherwise, I think you have to take Fordham or BU. Not sure New England (maybe Connecticut) will be a lock unless you hustle every summer.

Fordham at that COA is pretty good. Most people are going to be paying 4x that.

[theotherone823]

If you are really set on not doing BU and you are ok with the possibility of ending up in NY if you can't find something in NE, Fordham seems like the best option. Otherwise, get BC to match BU's offer.

Unless you have a really compelling reason not to attend BU, that's probably your best option followed closely by Fordham.

EDIT> Actually, Fordham might > BU depending on what kind of PI gig you're looking for.

Unless you want prestigious PI, don't do Columbia or NYU. And if you do, only do Columbia or NYU.

I am totally going to defer to twenty on which schools are best for certain kinds of PI (although I would imagine that for PI all of the other options > Cornell, or at least Cornell at sticker). But when it comes to debt load, that's my two cents

[lecsa]

.

[savepslf]

Thank you for all the feedback!

Unless you have a really compelling reason not to attend BU, that's probably your best option followed closely by Fordham.

EDIT> Actually, Fordham might > BU depending on what kind of PI gig you're looking for.

Twenty, I'm curious about how different kinds of PI might point to different schools. Care to elaborate on when you think Fordham > BU and vice versa?

[whereskyle]

Thank you for all the feedback!

Unless you have a really compelling reason not to attend BU, that's probably your best option followed closely by Fordham.

EDIT> Actually, Fordham might > BU depending on what kind of PI gig you're looking for.

Twenty, I'm curious about how different kinds of PI might point to different schools. Care to elaborate on when you think Fordham > BU and vice versa?

Location is a huge factor in PI work.

[FlanAl]

Cornell's lrap is immune to any changes to pslf and actually pays a chunk of your loans allowing you to leave PI (if you want/have to) with a lot of your loans actually paid. They put you on a 10 year repayment plan so if you leave after 5 years you will have actually cut your debt in half, while contributing very little out of your own PI pockets. Many other schools stick you with being in pslf which forces you into PI for 10 years for forgiveness with nothing more than your interest actually getting paid off. Also, because cornell gives you money to pay your loans, every payment you make while under cornell's lrap actually counts towards the 10 year pslf, so if you find yourself in a position where just paying the 10% of your income that pslf requires over the contribution cornell wants you can bail on cornell's lrap. I'll be working PI in New England once I graduate and would be happy to talk to you via pm if you want.

Originally I would have said Fordham but since public interest work is in the mix I think cornell should really actually be on the table here. Also, my understanding is that med students have to be pretty geographically flexible, it may be wise to go to a law school that allows you to do this.

[Clearly]

...numbers?

[twenty]

Not a big fan of Cornell's LRAP because you invariably end up in a really ugly financial situation. NYC's no-contribution threshold is like 44k or some ridiculously low number. For most forms of low-prestige PI, you're not going to do exponentially better from Cornell than from Fordham. On the other hand, if OP is targeting ACLU or something, they have no business going anywhere except NYU or Columbia.

[cotiger]

BU or Fordham

[Hrun]

Not a big fan of Cornell's LRAP because you invariably end up in a really ugly financial situation. NYC's no-contribution threshold is like 44k or some ridiculously low number. For most forms of low-prestige PI, you're not going to do exponentially better from Cornell than from Fordham. On the other hand, if OP is targeting ACLU or something, they have no business going anywhere except NYU or Columbia.

Where did you get the no-contribution threshold figures? I couldn't find them.

http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/admiss ... 2014-2.pdf

All I see in their document is that you have to contribute 50% of net income above a certain threshold. The New York example they use is actually regarding someone who makes more than $40,000.

Example 1:
Single graduate; $55,000.00 salary in New York City;
eligible Law School loans equal $800.00/month,
or $9,600.00 annually;
undergraduate loan payments equal $250.00/month, or
$3,000.00 annually:
$48,000.00 annual income

$3,000.00 non-Law School annual education debt
payments = $52,000.00
$45,052.00 New York City Standard Maintenance
Allowance ($35,000 + $10,052 (28.72%) = $6,948.00
adjusted gross annual income
$9,600.00 annual Law School debt payment
$3,474.00 participant’s expected annual contribution
towards debt payment ($6,948 x 50%)
$6,126.00 PILIPP grant

I'm actually a big fan now of Cornell's LRAP since the whole budge proposal thing. It seems like only Harvard, Yale, Stanford and Cornell protects PI students right now in case an Obama still budget regarding student loans gets passed. However, you're the go-to person on this twenty. Is there something I'm missing?

[BigZuck]

Fordham

I should edit this to say Fordham, unless you hate money and/or your significant other

Given what was presented, I can't see a scenario wherein Fordham isn't the run away best option

[cotiger]

Fordham

I should edit this to say Fordham, unless you hate money and/or your significant other

Given what was presented, I can't see a scenario wherein Fordham isn't the run away best option

I honestly don't know why the SO isn't laying down the law and telling OP that they're going to Fordham, end of discussion.

Or why the OP doesn't feel that way..

[twenty]

You effectively end up paying 50% over whatever the maximum salary is for zero contribution -- In NYC, that's 45k. However, that's the high end of the cap, and quickly goes down to 40k in PA and undoubtedly lower in more rural areas. Just because Cornell may end up being one of the only LRAPs left standing does not mean it's a good LRAP.

[FlanAl]

Not a big fan of Cornell's LRAP because you invariably end up in a really ugly financial situation. NYC's no-contribution threshold is like 44k or some ridiculously low number. For most forms of low-prestige PI, you're not going to do exponentially better from Cornell than from Fordham. On the other hand, if OP is targeting ACLU or something, they have no business going anywhere except NYU or Columbia.

Maybe not the thread for this but I'd rather contribute and get my loans actually paid than not contribute and be completely screwed if my PI org has budget issues and has to let people go. If the numbers they give on their site were to be for someone with a full debt load, that person contributes 3k and cornell gives them like 30k to come out to a normal payment on a 10 year repayment plan. Personally, I think thats way better than say gtown which puts you on a plan where the above example would owe 5.5k per year and gtown just gives them that 5.5k. Sure you can get away with paying nothing back at all but you may also have to pay everything back if you get dropped and can't get back into PI after 9.5 years of doing PI. The other plans force you into 10 years to get anything paid off, I'm a little more risk averse than that.

[twenty]

Just so we're clear, not saying Cornell's LRAP is somehow better than someone else's (mostly because this isn't the thread for that), I'm saying BU/Fordham for free >>>>>> relying on Cornell's LRAP. Unless, of course, OP is going for prestigious PI (which we still haven't heard back on). In that case, OP has no business going anywhere except Columbia and NYU, because that's realistically the only way OP will get prestigious PI.

[Nomo]

Not a big fan of Cornell's LRAP because you invariably end up in a really ugly financial situation. NYC's no-contribution threshold is like 44k or some ridiculously low number. For most forms of low-prestige PI, you're not going to do exponentially better from Cornell than from Fordham. On the other hand, if OP is targeting ACLU or something, they have no business going anywhere except NYU or Columbia.

Where did you get the no-contribution threshold figures? I couldn't find them.

http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/admiss ... 2014-2.pdf

All I see in their document is that you have to contribute 50% of net income above a certain threshold. The New York example they use is actually regarding someone who makes more than $40,000.

Example 1:
Single graduate; $55,000.00 salary in New York City;
eligible Law School loans equal $800.00/month,
or $9,600.00 annually;
undergraduate loan payments equal $250.00/month, or
$3,000.00 annually:
$48,000.00 annual income

$3,000.00 non-Law School annual education debt
payments = $52,000.00
$45,052.00 New York City Standard Maintenance
Allowance ($35,000 + $10,052 (28.72%) = $6,948.00
adjusted gross annual income
$9,600.00 annual Law School debt payment
$3,474.00 participant’s expected annual contribution
towards debt payment ($6,948 x 50%)
$6,126.00 PILIPP grant

I'm actually a big fan now of Cornell's LRAP since the whole budge proposal thing. It seems like only Harvard, Yale, Stanford and Cornell protects PI students right now in case an Obama still budget regarding student loans gets passed. However, you're the go-to person on this twenty. Is there something I'm missing?

How does that thing look if your law school debt is $300,000?

[FlanAl]

Not a big fan of Cornell's LRAP because you invariably end up in a really ugly financial situation. NYC's no-contribution threshold is like 44k or some ridiculously low number. For most forms of low-prestige PI, you're not going to do exponentially better from Cornell than from Fordham. On the other hand, if OP is targeting ACLU or something, they have no business going anywhere except NYU or Columbia.

Where did you get the no-contribution threshold figures? I couldn't find them.

http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/admiss ... 2014-2.pdf

All I see in their document is that you have to contribute 50% of net income above a certain threshold. The New York example they use is actually regarding someone who makes more than $40,000.

Example 1:
Single graduate; $55,000.00 salary in New York City;
eligible Law School loans equal $800.00/month,
or $9,600.00 annually;
undergraduate loan payments equal $250.00/month, or
$3,000.00 annually:
$48,000.00 annual income

$3,000.00 non-Law School annual education debt
payments = $52,000.00
$45,052.00 New York City Standard Maintenance
Allowance ($35,000 + $10,052 (28.72%) = $6,948.00
adjusted gross annual income
$9,600.00 annual Law School debt payment
$3,474.00 participant’s expected annual contribution
towards debt payment ($6,948 x 50%)
$6,126.00 PILIPP grant

I'm actually a big fan now of Cornell's LRAP since the whole budge proposal thing. It seems like only Harvard, Yale, Stanford and Cornell protects PI students right now in case an Obama still budget regarding student loans gets passed. However, you're the go-to person on this twenty. Is there something I'm missing?

How does that thing look if your law school debt is $300,000?

The PILIPP grant is closer to 30k than 9k

[Nyclawyer618]

Cornell easily. If you want to be a lawyer upon graduating

[savepslf]

Fordham

I should edit this to say Fordham, unless you hate money and/or your significant other

Given what was presented, I can't see a scenario wherein Fordham isn't the run away best option

I honestly don't know why the SO isn't laying down the law and telling OP that they're going to Fordham, end of discussion.

Or why the OP doesn't feel that way..

I do feel that way, and I'm very much leaning toward Fordham right now. I made this poll because I wanted to see if I might be limiting myself or being too clouded in judgement by leaning that way. (I've made decisions in the past that were more for another person's benefit than my own.) I was also curious about the discussion that would ensue RE T-14 LRAP vs. lower-ranked scholarship.

My S.O. is of course rooting for Fordham too, but s/he is letting me decide for myself, just like s/he ultimately decided on her/his med school last year. (Yes, I'm still a little worried about transparency here ha.)

And yes, I'm not really looking into prestigious PI (though I wouldn't turn down the opportunity). I'd be happy with local non-profit/government and that's where I envision myself post-grad.

Thanks all

[Clearly]

...numbers (again)?

[Big Dog]

If you got waitlisted at Columbia and NYU there's no way in the world you won't get money at Cornell

concur. this thread is premature