W&M v RU v Seton Hall Forum

[cberg]

I am in the middle of a week packed with campus visits and admitted students events, and it's actually making the decision-making process a whole lot harder. Hoping to get some advice on here. (Note: I posted on the "ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad" thread, but my numbers were off due to a formula error in my master Excel sheet for COA.)

About me:
Born in NY, grew up in NJ, graduated HS and UG in NJ
157/3.9 (No interest/ability to re-take and wait for the 2015 cycle)
Participated in a well-known political fellowship as an UG-- very strong network in the tri-state area and DC
Financing law school on my own through loans & a little bit of savings (no UG debt)
Strong background in politics, policy (related to social justice issues)
Ties to NY, NJ, Houston, and weaker ties in DC

Here's my breakdown:
Still waiting on (with very little faith that I'll get an offer):
Columbia
Cornell
Vanderbilt

Waitlist:
Michigan
Notre Dame

Admitted (includes schools I've already mentally eliminated:)
COA estimates include tuition and cost-of-living for all 3 years
William and Mary (COA ~$61,000)
Colorado (In the process of negotiating scholly $$ but not very hopeful)
U of H (COA ~$60,000)
Seton Hall (COA ~$26,000, have not yet tried to negotiate)
Brooklyn ($14,000/yr)
Northeastern ($5000/r + $2000 co-op stipend)
Rutgers Newark & Camden... same deal at both (COA ~$19,000)

I'm interested in public interest law (or public policy if I have the opportunity, which I already realize isn't safe to bank on.) I am very interested in social justice issues and have relevant work experience in both k-12 and higher education. I have worked directly for a former governor (i.e. had a personal relationship with and interacted with daily... he can speak to the quality of my work.)

My thoughts:
William and Mary is obviously the highest ranked school that I've been accepted to, and has a special education clinic that I'd definitely be participating in if I enroll. Their stats for government jobs are pretty good and I'm comfortable with the idea of moving to VA. Going to ASW this weekend.

I visited Seton Hall yesterday and was pretty impressed. I liked the general "vibe" that I got from speaking to students and would have solid opportunities to network in NJ... since my family is mostly in the NY/NJ area, I'd be comfortable with the fact that I know I'd probably be "stuck" in the region.

Haven't visited Rutgers yet since they're on spring break this week, but pretty much have an idea of what I'd be getting myself into; similar networking/career opportunities as Seton Hall, different student population, slightly better cost if I can't talk SH down.

Any advice (other than retake & reapply next year) would be appreciated, especially re: negotiating $$, where to attend, if I should by aggressive with Michigan or the schools I haven't heard from yet, etc.)

[TheSpanishMain]

157/3.9 (No interest/ability to re-take as I am not K-JD)

I'm genuinely confused. What does being a K-JD have to do with ability to retake?

[cberg]

157/3.9 (No interest/ability to re-take as I am not K-JD)

I'm genuinely confused. What does being a K-JD have to do with ability to retake?

I'm working full-time right now, don't have good old mom and dad to fall back on for a year, and don't think it's in my best interests to try to find a new job for just one year. (Staying at my current job is 100% out of the question.)

[Nova]

What are the scholarship stipulations? if theyre gpa stipulations, about what class rank would they be?

Retaking in June is playing with house money. May as well.

[cberg]

What are the scholarship stipulations? if theyre gpa stipulations, what class rank would they be about?

Retaking in June is playing with house money. May as well.

All of my letters are at home so I don't have the stips with me, but they were all pretty lax. A bunch of 2.9 GPA mins or top half of the class.. I think Rutgers might not have even had stips at all. W&M had the most rigorous ones, but in the last three years there has only been one student per year who has failed to meet the stips.

[The Dark Shepard]

There is literally no reason not to retake in June from what I have been told. If you get higher, you can use it to negotiate a higher scholarship at whatever school(essentially, threaten to go another cycle, even if you actually won't) and if you go lower, the school won't change it's offer

[rwhyAn]

157/3.9 (No interest/ability to re-take as I am not K-JD)

I'm genuinely confused. What does being a K-JD have to do with ability to retake?

I'm working full-time right now, don't have good old mom and dad to fall back on for a year, and don't think it's in my best interests to try to find a new job for just one year. (Staying at my current job is 100% out of the question.)

I'm not sure why retaking isn't an option. I'm 30, I work full-time, and I retook in February. I'm not generally a retake or don't go person, but that's a tremendous GPA, and even a few point increase in your LSAT would do wonders and really enhance your options. If you already have a 157, I think you have a decent understanding of the LSAT, and I think you could score 165+ on retake with three more months of studying, which would put you in T14 territory. Are your COA numbers per year or are they for all three years combined? If it's yearly, cross of W&M from your list, as it's too expensive to justify. Also, I'd cross Michigan off, considering that you'd be paying full freight if you were to get in, which is crazy even for a T14.

[cberg]

There is literally no reason not to retake in June from what I have been told. If you get higher, you can use it to negotiate a higher scholarship at whatever school(essentially, threaten to go another cycle, even if you actually won't) and if you go lower, the school won't change it's offer

Retaking in June is playing with house money. May as well.

Any stats on success rates negotiating $$ after June re-takes? I can definitely pick up my score a few points (got a migraine during my LSAT and scored the 157 after consistently scoring in the mid-high 160s, but didn't have time to re-take) but I'm just trying to do a cost-benefit analysis with my time since I'll be tying up loose ends at my job and getting ready to move...

[cberg]

157/3.9 (No interest/ability to re-take as I am not K-JD)

I'm genuinely confused. What does being a K-JD have to do with ability to retake?

I'm working full-time right now, don't have good old mom and dad to fall back on for a year, and don't think it's in my best interests to try to find a new job for just one year. (Staying at my current job is 100% out of the question.)

I'm not sure why retaking isn't an option. I'm 30, I work full-time, and I retook in February. I'm not generally a retake or don't go person, but that's a tremendous GPA, and even a few point increase in your LSAT would do wonders and really enhance your options. If you already have a 157, I think you have a decent understanding of the LSAT, and I think you could score 165+ on retake with three more months of studying, which would put you in T14 territory. Are your COA numbers per year or are they for all three years combined? If it's yearly, cross of W&M from your list, as it's too expensive to justify. Also, I'd cross Michigan off, considering that you'd be paying full freight if you were to get in, which is crazy even for a T14.

I guess what I mean is that I'm not waiting another full admission cycle... re-taking in June isn't completely out of the question.

Also, COA is for all three years.

[Winston1984]

Find a new job for a year and retake. You have a stupid high gpa. Don't waste it.

[francesfarmer]

What are the scholarship stipulations? if theyre gpa stipulations, what class rank would they be about?

Retaking in June is playing with house money. May as well.

All of my letters are at home so I don't have the stips with me, but they were all pretty lax. A bunch of 2.9 GPA mins or top half of the class.. I think Rutgers might not have even had stips at all. W&M had the most rigorous ones, but in the last three years there has only been one student per year who has failed to meet the stips.

Those aren't really lax stipulations.

Retake in June or find another job for a year and retake later. You seem to be a pretty high acheiving individual. Why would you limit yourself at this point?

[rwhyAn]

What are the scholarship stipulations? if theyre gpa stipulations, what class rank would they be about?

Retaking in June is playing with house money. May as well.

All of my letters are at home so I don't have the stips with me, but they were all pretty lax. A bunch of 2.9 GPA mins or top half of the class.. I think Rutgers might not have even had stips at all. W&M had the most rigorous ones, but in the last three years there has only been one student per year who has failed to meet the stips.

Those aren't really lax stipulations.

Retake in June or find another job for a year and retake later. You seem to be a pretty high acheiving individual. Why would you limit yourself at this point?

Rutgers-Newark has a 3.0 stip for all scholarships as far as I'm aware, which is roughly top half. It think Rutgers-C is even tougher. Only 32% of scholarship recipients at RU-C maintained their scholarships. See link below.

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/ ... holarships

[The Dark Shepard]

There is literally no reason not to retake in June from what I have been told. If you get higher, you can use it to negotiate a higher scholarship at whatever school(essentially, threaten to go another cycle, even if you actually won't) and if you go lower, the school won't change it's offer

Retaking in June is playing with house money. May as well.

Any stats on success rates negotiating $$ after June re-takes? I can definitely pick up my score a few points (got a migraine during my LSAT and scored the 157 after consistently scoring in the mid-high 160s, but didn't have time to re-take) but I'm just trying to do a cost-benefit analysis with my time since I'll be tying up loose ends at my job and getting ready to move...

I myself don't have stats. I am a 0L who will be retaking in June for the same reasons I mentioned above

[Nova]

Yeah, I don't think those statistics exist.

But I know a ton of anecdotes

[BigZuck]

There is literally no reason not to retake in June from what I have been told. If you get higher, you can use it to negotiate a higher scholarship at whatever school(essentially, threaten to go another cycle, even if you actually won't) and if you go lower, the school won't change it's offer

Retaking in June is playing with house money. May as well.

Any stats on success rates negotiating $$ after June re-takes? I can definitely pick up my score a few points (got a migraine during my LSAT and scored the 157 after consistently scoring in the mid-high 160s, but didn't have time to re-take) but I'm just trying to do a cost-benefit analysis with my time since I'll be tying up loose ends at my job and getting ready to move...

I am one of those success stories. I've told the story a bunch and I don't want to bore people like Nova who is probably sick of reading it so just utilize the search function if you want to find it.

Retake, don't waste that great GPA.

[francesfarmer]

Cost-benefit analysis is retake and profit. That's all you need to know. If you had a migraine during testing and underperformed that much you absolutely need to retake. Don't be a dummy. Start looking for a new job and studying for the LSAT.