American vs. Catholic vs. Baltimore Forum

[CrystalLee]

American (part-time) - No scholarship offer (from reading other posts one is not likely to come) - tuition about $35,000
Catholic (part-time) - $12,500 per year as long as I stay in "good academic standing" - tuition = about $22,000
Baltimore (part-time) - In-state tuition + $5,000 a year as long as I stay in "good academic standing" - tuition = about $14,000

I have worked in government service for 10 years (7 as a paralegal in the MD judiciary & the past 3 as a paralegal for two Federal Judges). My goal is to continue my career in government service - either as an attorney with a Federal agency (EEOP - DOL -JAG - CFPB) or in the MD/DC judiciary as a BIA/GAL/Victims Advocate. I'm also interested in a career in ADR in the field of Employment or Family Law. I have 3 children currently in school and have no plans to uproot my family to another area, so I am limited to the schools in the DC/MD area. I will take out loans to pay for tuition but will continue to work full-time during school and plan to pay down my loans as much as I can during the year.

Still waiting to hear from GULC, GW and Univ. of MD

Any insight into the communte from D.C. to Baltimore at 4:00pm would be extremely helpful as well. (Is my time worth more than the money I'd save commuting???).

LSAT - 158
GPA - 3.1

**I know I should retake; however, I've already taken 3 times (same score every time) + I'm getting old and would like to finish law school before I turn 40.**

[Ramius]

Skip law school, stick with the paralegal gig. If you really want to become a lawyer, wait out the time to retake, study, and retake for GULC PT. It's the only reasonable option. Also remember that you need to include cost of living and accumulated interest in your calculations, so you're looking at easily $150k from some of these schools and all likely over $100k. That's a huge investment in crappy employment opportunities. Don't put your family through that.

Also, have you never driven the beltway during rush hour? It's a nightmare.

ETA: just wanted to add I doubt you'll be able to pay off loans while attending with your paralegal salary on top of paying for cost of living for you and your family.

[CrystalLee]

Thank you mattewsean85!!! LOL no I have not driven the beltway at rush hour but it sounds like a nightmare. I am a lifelong MD resident but have somehow been able to avoid the beltway at rush hour. It sounds like I'll have to make a few test runs in the upcoming weeks to experience it for myself.

Believe me I have wrestled with the decision of retaking (and I have not totally ruled it out) but like I said I would really like to finish law school before I turn 40 and especially before my oldest graduates high school (which will be in four years). Right now I'm just conisdering the other three options available to me.

I know that I will not be able to completely pay off my loans during the year but I am fortunate that my cost of living is low enough (I will not be financing any COL expenses) and that my salary is high enough that I usually have a decent amount of expendable income every month that I will be able to put towards my tuition/loans.

[deadpanic]

Under no circumstances should anyone ever attend American. And I would say the same for Catholic as well.

The thing is, there is a very good possibility that after 3 years and hundreds of thousands of dollars in nondischargeable debt, you will still be a paralegal. Last I checked, American only places about 30% of its graduates into actual legal positions.

[francesfarmer]

Nobody is actually reading the OP. She's not taking out any COL loans. I'm not defending American or Catholic but her situation is different from most peoples'. She is super nontrad.

OP, check out lawschooltransparency.com for employment information for each of these schools. If you're not willing to wait and retake for GULC part time, I would go where the debt is lowest and try hard to work your connections. I know 40 feels like a huge benchmark, but hopefully the link above will show you that waiting and retaking will vastly improve your chances of actually becoming a lawyer vs. paying a ton of money and have nothing to show for it.

How did you study for the LSAT the last three times?

Are the numbers you stated above total cost over 4 years?

[californiauser]

Baltimore doesn't seem like a terrible option if your spouse can cover cost of living and you can use your salary to pay down tuition costs. However, if you attend Baltimore, understand that only 50% of its grads become attorneys 9 months after graduation -- in other words, be prepared to keep your current job if you don't perform well in school.

GULC part-time doesn't seem like a great option for OP. I'm under the impression they don't give scholarships to part-time students.

[Nova]

Baltimore is your cheapest option and also has the best job prospects. So, theres that.

[Mauve.Dino]

Wait for U. of Maryland to get back to you. If they offer you a better deal than U. of Baltimore, then go for UM. If not, I'd do U. Balt.

[francesfarmer]

GULC part-time doesn't seem like a great option for OP. I'm under the impression they don't give scholarships to part-time students.

This is good to know. That's not really an advisable option then.

Baltimore seems like the answer then. And she should def be prepared to keep her current job if things don't pan out.

[chuckbass]

Baltimore is your cheapest option and also has the best job prospects. So, theres that.

I think considering your options this is the best one.

[francesfarmer]

Wait for U. of Maryland to get back to you. If they offer you a better deal than U. of Baltimore, then go for UM. If not, I'd do U. Balt.

Definitely wait for University of Maryland to get back to you with scholarship info. You might be able to negotiate further.

[CrystalLee]

Thank you all so much for your responses!!! To answer a few questions:

How did you study for the LSAT the last three times?

One of my former Law Clerk's who scored pretty well tutored me a bit. I also used the PowerScore books and did as many practice tests as I could fit in while working 6 days a week, with 3 kids. (I forgot to mention, I also waitress on Saturdays).

Are the numbers you stated above total cost over 4 years?

No, those numbers are per year or at least for the 2014-2015 academic year.

And she should def be prepared to keep her current job if things don't pan out.

I am able to keep my current position as long as I want to. Which is not necessarily a bad thing, I really like what I do and and I make decent money. I've decided to go to law school because, of course, I'd like to advance but I can't realistically move into a higher Federal pay grade without a graduate degree and law school seems to be the logical choice with my career path thus far, and future goals.

[fenton]

If all you're interested in is getting some sort of graduate degree in order to be eligible for a higher federal pay grade, why not consider some place like UDC and go for free?

[CrystalLee]

If all you're interested in is getting some sort of graduate degree in order to be eligible for a higher federal pay grade, why not consider some place like UDC and go for free?

I considered that too when I started applying but all the law clerks and attorneys I work with turned me off UDC by constantly telling me that UDC wasn't worth going to even for free. Also I apoloize, my comment may have been misleading. I'm not going to law school just to get a higher pay grade. I really do want to be an attorney/attorney advisor working for the judiciary or a Federal agency.

Does anyone know if the Federal Government is as selective about which school you received your law degree from as private firms??

[thebobs1987]

If all you're interested in is getting some sort of graduate degree in order to be eligible for a higher federal pay grade, why not consider some place like UDC and go for free?

I considered that too when I started applying but all the law clerks and attorneys I work with turned me off UDC by constantly telling me that UDC wasn't worth going to even for free. Also I apoloize, my comment may have been misleading. I'm not going to law school just to get a higher pay grade. I really do want to be an attorney/attorney advisor working for the judiciary or a Federal agency.

Does anyone know if the Federal Government is as selective about which school you received your law degree from as private firms??

I used to work in the Federal Government. DOJ, SEC, and Treasury tend to be even more selective. It gets a little less selective after that. But I worked at two departments people would consider less prestigious and a lot (if not most) of our lawyers were still t14. There was more of a mix though. I just worked with the lawyers though, so someone that is actually practicing in the departments might have a better response on it. My sense is it really depends on the department/bureau and the hiring supervisor's preference.

[haus]

Does anyone know if the Federal Government is as selective about which school you received your law degree from as private firms??

You may want to go to LinkedIn and use their advanced search options to look for attorneys from the various schools you are considering to see what types of jobs they report having.

Given that you are a nontrad, you path may vary a bit from your classmates but it may still give you an idea of what type of options may be available.

[timbs4339]

Have you spoken with people at the agencies in question, or supervisors/attorneys, to really see whether they would hire someone out of Baltimore? (I'm assuming you know by now that Catholic/American at those prices are terrible deals). The legal profession is very stratified, and federal government jobs are really competitive. You'd probably have to do very well (top few percent) and even then it's a crapshoot. State government would probably be doable from Baltimore or UMaryland.

[BmoreOrLess]

Any insight into the communte from D.C. to Baltimore at 4:00pm would be extremely helpful as well. (Is my time worth more than the money I'd save commuting???).

If you can easily get to Union Station, the MARC train would be your best option. UB is right by Penn Station. UMD would get a little bit trickier, but still very doable via MARC. You'd just have to hop on two (free) buses after you get off the train (and now that I think of it, UMD has their own shuttle too, I just don't know how it works).

If things got crazy, coming to Baltimore from DC usually isn't bad, but travel times around here vary wildly due to terrible drivers.

[deuceindc]

Any insight into the communte from D.C. to Baltimore at 4:00pm would be extremely helpful as well. (Is my time worth more than the money I'd save commuting???).

If you can easily get to Union Station, the MARC train would be your best option. UB is right by Penn Station. UMD would get a little bit trickier, but still very doable via MARC. You'd just have to hop on two (free) buses after you get off the train (and now that I think of it, UMD has their own shuttle too, I just don't know how it works).

I second this, as long as OP can make the return trip with MARC -- the last weeknight train leaves Baltimore Penn Station at 915PM. Not sure how late evening classes run, but this is an excellent option if it works out.

[CrystalLee]

If you can easily get to Union Station, the MARC train would be your best option. UB is right by Penn Station. UMD would get a little bit trickier, but still very doable via MARC. You'd just have to hop on two (free) buses after you get off the train (and now that I think of it, UMD has their own shuttle too, I just don't know how it works).

If things got crazy, coming to Baltimore from DC usually isn't bad, but travel times around here vary wildly due to terrible drivers.

Baltimore is out of the running. I tried the drive from DC to Baltimore at 4:30 and it was ridiculous (about and hour and 45 mins). I'm pretty sure I'll lose my mind if I have to sit in that kind of traffic every day for the next four years, plus that's a lot time I can spend studying.

So...now I'm trying to decide between Catholic and American:

American has offered me a $10,000 per year scholarship making their tuition $24,750 per year (not including interest)
Catholic as upped their scholarship offer to $17,500 per year making their tuition $17,410 per year (not including interest)

** I am toying with the idea of taking out a 2nd mortgage at a 3-4% interest rate (plus a tax dedection) instead of student loans. **

You may want to go to LinkedIn and use their advanced search options to look for attorneys from the various schools you are considering to see what types of jobs they report having.

Given that you are a nontrad, you path may vary a bit from your classmates but it may still give you an idea of what type of options may be available.

I've searched LinkedIn and there appears to be a good number of American and Catholic graduates working as attorneys for my preferred agencies with a slight edge going to American.

Any further insights are greatly appreciated

[twenty]

For what it's worth, low-prestige federal agencies (basically anyone other than DOJ, SEC, DOS, and CIA) literally could not care less whether you go to American or Catholic. In fact, the majority of honors hiring programs don't let hiring officials see your school name.

68k for four years still seems like an excessively large amount of money even for a non-trad. Keep Baltimore "on the table" and leverage them against Catholic and American as best you can.

[rodmanhust]

I also got into PT programs at American, Catholic, and UMaryland. also have to work in DC during the day.

Maryland is the best school, but obviously the commute is HORRIBLE. even taking MARC is still at least 1.5hrs.

Any way around the traffic? otherwise, it's not feasible.

If you can easily get to Union Station, the MARC train would be your best option. UB is right by Penn Station. UMD would get a little bit trickier, but still very doable via MARC. You'd just have to hop on two (free) buses after you get off the train (and now that I think of it, UMD has their own shuttle too, I just don't know how it works).

If things got crazy, coming to Baltimore from DC usually isn't bad, but travel times around here vary wildly due to terrible drivers.

Baltimore is out of the running. I tried the drive from DC to Baltimore at 4:30 and it was ridiculous (about and hour and 45 mins). I'm pretty sure I'll lose my mind if I have to sit in that kind of traffic every day for the next four years, plus that's a lot time I can spend studying.

So...now I'm trying to decide between Catholic and American:

American has offered me a $10,000 per year scholarship making their tuition $24,750 per year (not including interest)
Catholic as upped their scholarship offer to $17,500 per year making their tuition $17,410 per year (not including interest)

** I am toying with the idea of taking out a 2nd mortgage at a 3-4% interest rate (plus a tax dedection) instead of student loans. **

You may want to go to LinkedIn and use their advanced search options to look for attorneys from the various schools you are considering to see what types of jobs they report having.

Given that you are a nontrad, you path may vary a bit from your classmates but it may still give you an idea of what type of options may be available.

I've searched LinkedIn and there appears to be a good number of American and Catholic graduates working as attorneys for my preferred agencies with a slight edge going to American.

Any further insights are greatly appreciated

[CrystalLee]

I've finally made my decision and I'm going to Catholic. It's only 10 minutes from work. Plus I was able to negotiate a little more scholarship money and registered for Catholic's 10-month payment plan -- so with my scholarship and my out of pocket payments its looking like I'm only going to need to finance around $5,000 to $7,000 a year. American was being way to stingy and although Baltimore is a lot cheaper, the hour and half commute is ridiculous and I really think my time is worth more than the money I'd save by going there. Besides, if the IRS continues to be as good to me as they have the past few years, my tax returns should be able to cover a good portion of that $5,000 - $7,000. I'm very excited, I looks like I just might be able to finish law school debt free. Thank you all for your very helpful input!!!

[twenty]

Congrats and good luck.

[Yung Yoda]

I've finally made my decision and I'm going to Catholic. It's only 10 minutes from work. Plus I was able to negotiate a little more scholarship money and registered for Catholic's 10-month payment plan -- so with my scholarship and my out of pocket payments its looking like I'm only going to need to finance around $5,000 to $7,000 a year. American was being way to stingy and although Baltimore is a lot cheaper, the hour and half commute is ridiculous and I really think my time is worth more than the money I'd save by going there. Besides, if the IRS continues to be as good to me as they have the past few years, my tax returns should be able to cover a good portion of that $5,000 - $7,000. I'm very excited, I looks like I just might be able to finish law school debt free. Thank you all for your very helpful input!!!

Good Choice I think You Have Made. Wish u Best of Luck I do.