Money vs. Lifestyle Forum

[SeanGotti]

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[sublime]

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[goldeneye]

What are your stats? Career goals? What are the schools?

Frankly no T-2 is really ideal at all, but knowing the above can help.

[Nomo]

QoL doesn't matter that much for law school, but there is a good chance that you will be stuck there with a lower ranked school.

The answer is probably to retake, honestly, because going to a tier 2 school where you don't want to work is a bad decision, and going to a tier 2 school at sticker is a worse one.

Agreed.

The only exception would be if this is a rare public tier 2 school with tuition hovering around 12k . . . that's still probably a bad decision; but no worse than going to a tier 2 where you don't want to practice. You've got to get that LSAT up and try again.

[KatyMarie]

Have you tried negotiating with the school you want to go to with the scholarship offer you received?

Also, if you tell us the info in the stickied post, it makes it a lot easier to give good advice!

[SeanGotti]

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[SeanGotti]

Have you tried negotiating with the school you want to go to with the scholarship offer you received?

Also, if you tell us the info in the stickied post, it makes it a lot easier to give good advice!

My last reply should contain just about everything you need to know.

I am not sure what you mean..Negotiating what exactly?

[dd235]

Have you tried negotiating with the school you want to go to with the scholarship offer you received?

Also, if you tell us the info in the stickied post, it makes it a lot easier to give good advice!

My last reply should contain just about everything you need to know.

I am not sure what you mean..Negotiating what exactly?

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 22&t=79373

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =7&t=27221

[SeanGotti]

Have you tried negotiating with the school you want to go to with the scholarship offer you received?

Also, if you tell us the info in the stickied post, it makes it a lot easier to give good advice!

My last reply should contain just about everything you need to know.

I am not sure what you mean..Negotiating what exactly?

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 22&t=79373

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =7&t=27221

Wow, I never even considered that as an option. Thank you very much for both of those links.

[timbs4339]

Retake/reapply to schools actually in the mid-atlantic. Law school is not a way to use government money to take a 3 year vacation. Rich people can do that, you can't. Suck it up and deal with it.

[SeanGotti]

Retake/reapply to schools actually in the mid-atlantic. Law school is not a way to use government money to take a 3 year vacation. Rich people can do that, you can't. Suck it up and deal with it.

Seems a little ridiculous to say that considering quality of life is the same thing as my search for a 3 year vacation. I have already stated that I am not retaking or reapplying. My options are my options at this point.

[timbs4339]

Retake/reapply to schools actually in the mid-atlantic. Law school is not a way to use government money to take a 3 year vacation. Rich people can do that, you can't. Suck it up and deal with it.

Seems a little ridiculous to say that considering quality of life is the same thing as my search for a 3 year vacation. I have already stated that I am not retaking or reapplying. My options are my options at this point.

Quality of life is for people with the money to pay for it. You are financing this with government loans (running at high interest rates) when you could be going for free or retaking, reapplying, and getting in somewhere else for free. The craziest thing is that you don't want to even practice in Florida, going to Miami would be a waste of money.

EDIT: The post below said it much better than I. This is a serious decision, not to be made on factors like which city has better nightlife or sports teams or more sun. You should be going to school in the region you want to practice because internships and part-time jobs are especially important in the criminal law field- there are a limited number of DA/PD spots and working for an office during school can held you get a foot in the door.

[northwood]

law school is 3 + years of misery. If you think you will have plenty of time to enjoy life- think again- you will be doing a ton of work, and working towards achieving your career goals. If you must go, and have an opportunity to go for a big discount- take it and go ( and drop out if you lose the scholarship). The only choice here, IMO is MSU or nowhere. Since you are planning on going, and have narrowed it down to Miami and MSU, and only one (MSU) is offering you a full scholarship- go there.


But since neither school is in your target area- Perhaps the question should be MSU or reapply next cycle to the schools in my target geographic region. This is not a "where do I want to spend 3 years at school" decision- its a career move, which will have significant impacts on your future career.

[rwhyAn]

OP, nobody is going to tell you that taking out over $200k in non-dischargeable debt (plus interest) is a good idea. Have you been in the workforce at all, or are you straight out of undergrad? The only reason I ask is because $200k is a shit-ton of money, and if you haven't been in the workforce at all, you really wouldn't have any idea how difficult it is to pay off that amount. More likely than not, you'd never be able to pay it off in full, no joke. On a 10-year repayment plan, you're looking at $3,000/month or $1900/month for 25 years. The median salary for Miami c/o 2012 with less than half reporting (people making peanuts generally don't report) is $60,000, so you can safely figure that number is better than average. On $60,000 salary, your 10-year loan payment would be equal to your take home, so even though you may be employed, you'd be homeless and starving. On a 25-year plan, you'd take home roughly $1000 per month, so you'd have to pick if you'd rather be homeless or starving (it'll be one or the other). Well, you might say that there's always IBR/PAYE. With that, you'll work for 25 years only to be homeless when you get hit with that tax bomb.

TLDR; Miami at sticker = 3 years of fun in the sun with a lifetime of misery afterward.

You've been warned. Make the big boy decision right now and cross Miami at sticker off your list now, as much as it hurts.

[SeanGotti]

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[SeanGotti]

northwood and rwhyAn, thank you both for posting. Again, I really appreciate everyone giving actual feedback.

This will be right out of undergrad so my experience in paying back any significant amount of debt is absent. I am very aware of my ignorance of these subjects, but that is why I am here. I was led to believe that attending school in an area other than where I plan on practicing would not be an issue, mainly because of summer internships. Is there no truth to this?

[timbs4339]

Retake/reapply to schools actually in the mid-atlantic. Law school is not a way to use government money to take a 3 year vacation. Rich people can do that, you can't. Suck it up and deal with it.

Seems a little ridiculous to say that considering quality of life is the same thing as my search for a 3 year vacation. I have already stated that I am not retaking or reapplying. My options are my options at this point.

Quality of life is for people with the money to pay for it. You are financing this with government loans when you could be going for free or retaking, reapplying, and getting in somewhere else for free.

You're right and I really appreciate your input. Although I have no intentions to take out government loans to throw at Miami strip clubs, there are many reasons why I believe I would be a much happier person after three years there than in East Lansing. Your opinion is very similar to the opinions of my friends and family, and I guess the true purpose of this thread is not to learn anything I didn't already know, but to hear it from people who have had to make similar decisions.

Also remember that your lifestyle is really going to suck paying back 200K of debt on a 50K salary (the likely salary for someone working in criminal law out of Miami) and I wouldn't rely on PSLF, since there's now a concerted policy push to place caps on the forgiveness amounts.

[sublime]

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[northwood]

you will want to go to school where you want to practice. Sure you may be able to summer if you have ties to the area( i.e. lived there, grew up there, know a lot of lawyers from family-get-togethers there), but other firms wont know that, and the person at H.R. looking at your resume will see your school- and assume you don't have ties- and disregard you before you can explain. Or you get labeled a flight risk since you went to school in another area- which may indicate a lack of commitment to your home town area ( and you have to sell them that they are the only place you want to be for your entire career- or pretty darn close to it).

If you don't have ties, but have a compelling reason to relocate there- then you must absolutely go to school there. And moving there for a year or 2 before school will help convince future employers of your desire to remain there ( and if you don't want to- then you can move around and figure out where you want to live and go from there- or not go to law school because you found something that interests you more)

[banjo]

Miami is a non-starter at sticker cost and Michigan is a bad option if you don't want to practice in Michigan. Neither of these options makes sense given your career goals. Retake and go to a T14 with a good LRAP.

[Ohiobumpkin]

Both of these options are terrible. Retake-->Reapply, or don't go to law school. I don't personally think quality of life is a non-factor, but it should not be what determines where you go to law school. What should determine that is roughly this for most people: Cost>Desired career path>geographic preference≤ ties.

[jbagelboy]

If you will not retake the stupid test and reapply, I just feel badly for you and everyone close to you who will watch you struggle. I would construct an elaborate argument to show why attending either program with your goals would be a horrible decision, but at this point I'm basically prepared to leave it to others to do the trick

[Nova]

Rule #1: don't go to a regional school in a state you don't want to live in. The MSU degree will be more useless than a local TTTT degree in the market you want to practice in.

Rule #2: don't pay anything close to sticker for a regional school. That's like financial suicide.

breaking either rule will result in one of the worst decisions of your life.

[KatyMarie]

Especially since you're still in undergrad, you ought to think about getting a job and taking some time off for a little while! The real world is pretty fun, and you'll get a breather from school for a few years. Then you can retake and reapply at your own pace.

If you aren't happy with your options, which it sounds like you're not, you have the option to take a couple of years off first. Law school isn't going anywhere. Then you can go to the regional you want for basically free, or go somewhere in the T-14 with some $.

Good luck!

[Mauve.Dino]

Retake.