For PI enviro in DC, choose Berkeley, UVA, or UPenn? Forum

[yguy]

Tl;dr Given a certainty of public interest work, a possibility of environmental law, and a preference for Washington, DC., should I choose Berkeley, UVA, or UPenn?

I have 3+ years experience with the federal government on matters related to environmental law. I am confident that I could get a job at the same agency after law school.

But as an 0L I am unsure if my interests will extend beyond that agency. A list of other agencies I am currently considering includes DOJ, EPA, FERC, SEC, and FTCC. I like environmental issues but, as that list indicates, I have found myself moreso drawn to the intersection of public and private (especially business) interests.

Berkeley, UVA, and UPenn are peer schools. Berkeley has the better environmental program and the better LRAP. UVA places many more graduates into DC.

Here are my thoughts, I look forward to yours: I think UPenn is last among the three - tightest LRAP, lowest placement into government. I figure UVA will be significantly better than the other two for getting an entry-level job at any non-prestigious fed gvt. For prestigious fed gvt. entry level, the schools are about equal but Berkeley's environmental program could tip the scales for me. Returning to my previous agency and trying to lateral in fed gvt after 5-10 years will be significantly easier from UVA than the other two.

It looks like I won’t get any scholarship money, but I plan on going on LRAP/PSLF. I would live permanently in California or Philadelphia but think I’d rather work on fed gvt issues and be in Washington, D.C.

Which school should I choose? Are these the appropriate considerations?

Thank you and I’m happy to answer any questions if I left something out.

[swampman]

It looks like I won’t get any scholarship money, but I plan on going on LRAP/PSLF. .

First and foremost, look into Obama's proposed changes to/demolishment of PSLF and make sure you're comfortable taking the very large risk that PSLF will not be there in 10 years.

Second, why do you assume you can move back to your agency easily, but much more easily if you go to UVA? If you have contacts in legal hiring I don't think UVA/Berkeley will make much difference (if you don't, try to network with them and get their advice on where to attend, see what they're looking for in new hires). UVA has a big boost for DC biglaw, but I don't think that carries over to FedGov hiring. I would probably pick Berkeley for the environmental program, but really neither are a good idea given the risks to PSLF.

[Rotor]

Berkeley will likely not be an impediment to getting back to DC. I have several classmates in town with me. In fact, one of my classmates did precisely what you are looking to do. (WARNING: Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal) Like you, he was interested in the public/private intersection of environmental issues. He had been living/working in DC and his family stayed here for his wife's career. He is now at a V10 firm working on the business side of that intersection (while he pays down loans of course)

On a less anecdotal level, I think Berkeley could have a distinct advantage for you because of the UCDC program. The UC system has a cooperative program where students, including law students, come for a semester. Work by day and then a (weekly?) seminar at night. The program is designed to help students find placements in government agencies or private foundations in the city. You already have some ties, but you could leverage that by doing UCDC in a different agency to expand your network (especially since you don't sound convinced that where you are is where you want to be).

Call Dean Tom's office and ask who you could talk to about UCDC to see if it will help you decide.

[rad lulz]

GULC pt?

[worldtraveler]

Berkeley will likely not be an impediment to getting back to DC. I have several classmates in town with me. In fact, one of my classmates did precisely what you are looking to do. (WARNING: Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal) Like you, he was interested in the public/private intersection of environmental issues. He had been living/working in DC and his family stayed here for his wife's career. He is now at a V10 firm working on the business side of that intersection (while he pays down loans of course)

On a less anecdotal level, I think Berkeley could have a distinct advantage for you because of the UCDC program. The UC system has a cooperative program where students, including law students, come for a semester. Work by day and then a (weekly?) seminar at night. The program is designed to help students find placements in government agencies or private foundations in the city. You already have some ties, but you could leverage that by doing UCDC in a different agency to expand your network (especially since you don't sound convinced that where you are is where you want to be).

Call Dean Tom's office and ask who you could talk to about UCDC to see if it will help you decide.

We also put somebody in the DOJ environmental division last year.

OP I think you should ask Berkeley if they could put you in touch with some of their alums in DC fed offices or in enviromental law jobs. I do know that not everyone dedicated to environmental issues ended up with jobs (at least not right away), as it's a small and competitive field. They might have more insight of what you need to do.

[Law Sauce]

On a less anecdotal level, I think Berkeley could have a distinct advantage for you because of the UCDC program. The UC system has a cooperative program where students, including law students, come for a semester. Work by day and then a (weekly?) seminar at night. The program is designed to help students find placements in government agencies or private foundations in the city. You already have some ties, but you could leverage that by doing UCDC in a different agency to expand your network (especially since you don't sound convinced that where you are is where you want to be).

UVa has pretty much the exact same program. Its basically an externship in DC

[yguy]

I was also leaning towards Berkeley, and the advice so far supports my position.

Rotor and worldtraveler - I'll be in touch with Berkeley on Monday, thanks!

Regarding swampman's comments about PSLF, I appreciate the concern but think that both Berkeley and UVA could bail me out financially (similar Big Law placement) if the law is changed next year and applies to me. If it's not changed next year, it seems to me unlikely that a PSLF cap would ever apply to me. I take this position in agreement with commentators I've found (e.g., Heather Jarvis at http://askheatherjarvis.com/forums/viewthread/9080/). If I'm wrong and a PSLF cap is applied to me down the line after I've taken the public service route (in which case I'll want to lateral to Big Law), UVA's network seems a safer bet than Berkeley environmental (since half of DC will want to lateral). But I think that excellent grades will negate that and maybe even flip it, and what am I doing this for at all if I'm not hoping for excellent grades.

Law Sauce - If I focus on environmental law, I think the externship opportunity might be better leveraged from Berkeley. But I'll be in touch with Berkeley on Monday to find out.

[twenty]

GULC PT should far and away be your top choice here if you're not getting any scholarship money and you want bigfed. ITE, you definitely can't count on getting back into your old agency if things don't work out, and the experience/money you'll make from working while on the PT program is a huge plus. Stay with your current agency and gun for other more prestigious spots (i.e, your honors program) while you're there.

[yguy]

I did not apply to Georgetown (FT or PT) and don't work anymore at the agency. Even if that's the best consideration, which you haven't convinced me it is, that ship has sailed (especially given current movements on PSLF).

By the way, after thinking about it for a moment, I want clarify that I'm going to law school for greater reasons than excellent grades. But a lack of excellent grades indicates that I might better accomplish my goals and be satisfied in other ways.

[twenty]

Even if that's the best consideration, which you haven't convinced me it is, that ship has sailed (especially given current movements on PSLF).

It looks like I won’t get any scholarship money, but I plan on going on LRAP/PSLF

Anyway, if you already left your agency, then I withdraw my recommendation. For anyone else who's currently at a federal agency and wants to work in bigfed, feel free to PM me.

[yguy]

For incomes between 65k and 75k, it does appear that Georgetown's LRAP is stronger. But after that I'm not so sure (haven't looked too much at Georgetown LRAP), especially closer to incomes of 100k where I doubt Georgetown pays anything near the 65% Berkeley does. In any case, I figured that Berkeley's stronger rank, environmental program, and commitment to public service (in case the PSLF rug is pulled out) would serve me better than Georgetown over the long run. Still, I know a lot of people who did Georgetown PT and liked it a lot.

[Ohiobumpkin]

GULC PT should far and away be your top choice here if you're not getting any scholarship money and you want bigfed. ITE, you definitely can't count on getting back into your old agency if things don't work out, and the experience/money you'll make from working while on the PT program is a huge plus. Stay with your current agency and gun for other more prestigious spots (i.e, your honors program) while you're there.

[Law Sauce]

Law Sauce - If I focus on environmental law, I think the externship opportunity might be better leveraged from Berkeley. But I'll be in touch with Berkeley on Monday to find out.

Knowing little about the subject, I have no reason to disagree. I was just pointing out UVA also had a work-in-DC type program. Good luck

[jbagelboy]

Oh my god berkeley by a landslide here unless uva and penn are way cheaper