Michigan v UCLA v ASU Forum

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
Post Reply

Where should I go???

Michigan (sticker)
22
65%
UCLA (sticker)
1
3%
ASU (full ride)
11
32%
 
Total votes: 34

beachnbeer

New
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:14 pm

Michigan v UCLA v ASU

Post by beachnbeer » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:31 pm

Hello all,
First time poster, long time reader here. I am having trouble coming to a decision as the clock ticks nearer so I wanted to throw this poll out there and get some diverse thoughts on the subject. First a little about me, 3.6 GPA 159 LSAT but decent softs and URM.

I am deciding between Michigan at sticker, UCLA at sticker, or ASU full ride. I will need to take out loans to pay for school and am fairly frightened of being able to pay off massive loans. I am from California, but weather isn't necessarily a major factor in my decision as I believe a change could be a good thing for 3 years. I have no clue what type of law I want to practice, which makes choosing a school for a program difficult. I have no preference for where I want to work, but if forced to choose I would pick San Diego or Washington DC. Lastly, I know my LSAT number isn't high, but I cannot take it again and consume a year off (as I know many will suggest).

Thank you all for your input, and I would be happy to answer anymore questions to help you help me along the decision process.

User avatar
Winston1984

Gold
Posts: 1789
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:02 pm

Re: Michigan v UCLA v ASU

Post by Winston1984 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:40 pm

Why can't you retake?

WheninLaw

Silver
Posts: 620
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:35 pm

Re: Michigan v UCLA v ASU

Post by WheninLaw » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:44 pm

If I offered you $200,000 to wait a year, would you?

cslouisck

Bronze
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:59 am

Re: Michigan v UCLA v ASU

Post by cslouisck » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:52 pm

First of all, congrats on the acceptances. Second, do you have any thoughts on what kind of work you'd like to do? Acquiring more than $200,000 in debt at UCLA and Michigan will force you down the biglaw path, irrespective of whether you'd enjoy it. Are you absolutely sure you want that for yourself? Could you be happy living out your days in Arizona? If the answer to the latter question is yes, then start talking to some ASU grads to see if the kind of work they're doing would interest you.

beachnbeer

New
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: Michigan v UCLA v ASU

Post by beachnbeer » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:05 am

Winston1984 wrote:Why can't you retake?
I cannot retake for three reasons. Honestly, I am terribly impatient and I need to go straight from undergrad or else it will be difficult for me to go back to school. Another reason is financial, in that I can no longer rely on parents for money/housing and thus need to make a move on my own. Also, my practice LSAT scores were all around the same area with only a few higher and I have no desire to glance upon another logic game. While this may be seem unreasonable, it is a parameter that I choose to have going forward with my law decision
cslouisck wrote:First of all, congrats on the acceptances. Second, do you have any thoughts on what kind of work you'd like to do? Acquiring more than $200,000 in debt at UCLA and Michigan will force you down the biglaw path, irrespective of whether you'd enjoy it. Are you absolutely sure you want that for yourself? Could you be happy living out your days in Arizona? If the answer to the latter question is yes, then start talking to some ASU grads to see if the kind of work they're doing would interest you.
I really have no idea of what type of law I would want to practice. Criminal law seems fascinating but Im sure that is everyone's first impression. Other than that, possibly corporate law, IP/Copyright. Lastly, I wouldn't be opposed to living in Arizona for a while.

Want to continue reading?

Register now to search topics and post comments!

Absolutely FREE!


User avatar
FlightoftheEarls

Silver
Posts: 859
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:50 pm

Re: Michigan v UCLA v ASU

Post by FlightoftheEarls » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:11 am

beachnbeer wrote:
Winston1984 wrote:Why can't you retake?
I cannot retake for three reasons. Honestly, I am terribly impatient and I need to go straight from undergrad or else it will be difficult for me to go back to school. Another reason is financial, in that I can no longer rely on parents for money/housing and thus need to make a move on my own. Also, my practice LSAT scores were all around the same area with only a few higher and I have no desire to glance upon another logic game. While this may be seem unreasonable, it is a parameter that I choose to have going forward with my law decision
Oh good.

BigZuck

Diamond
Posts: 11730
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: Michigan v UCLA v ASU

Post by BigZuck » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:20 am

Since you're not going to retake the only logical decision is to not go to law school.

Eta: Michigan at sticker might be defensible for someone but not someone as unmotivated as the OP. His lunch will be eaten in law school, I'm pretty confident about that.
Last edited by BigZuck on Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

WheninLaw

Silver
Posts: 620
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:35 pm

Re: Michigan v UCLA v ASU

Post by WheninLaw » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:20 am

beachnbeer wrote:I cannot retake for three reasons. Honestly, I am terribly impatient and I need to go straight from undergrad or else it will be difficult for me to go back to school. Another reason is financial, in that I can no longer rely on parents for money/housing and thus need to make a move on my own. Also, my practice LSAT scores were all around the same area with only a few higher and I have no desire to glance upon another logic game. While this may be seem unreasonable, it is a parameter that I choose to have going forward with my law decision
It sounds like you would be better served by getting a job and learning how to live on your own than going straight to law school. If you make the [very poor] decision to go, you need to figure out your priorities. If any job > CA job, then I'd go to Michigan. If reverse, then I'd go to UCLA.

HP5450

New
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:37 pm

Re: Michigan v UCLA v ASU

Post by HP5450 » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:46 am

ASU is a horrible choice. Less than 10 percent of graduates are ending up at large law firms or federal clerkships, which means that 90 percent are not making a very much money. In contrast, 25 percent of their graduates are unemployed, employed short-term or part time. Even with the scholarship, you'll pay for that choice in the long run.

Between UCLA and Michigan, Michigan is by far a better choice for most people at cost. The L.A. market may well be easier coming out of Michigan for someone with CA ties than for a similarly situated student at UCLA, and Michigan is definitely a more portable degree. Absent a compelling reason to stay in California for law school, go to Michigan.

However, I agree with the above posters that someone in your situation might be better served waiting for a year, getting a job, and retaking the LSAT.

As a side note, recognize why you're being accepted and appreciate that you may not end up competing well in GPA terms in law school. There's no magic 8-ball for how you'll do, but know that law is a tough path if you don't perform well. Don't try to hide in law school. You'll get crushed.

edit: I want to caveat the last paragraph by adding that if you went to MIT, majored in mechanical engineering, and managed a 3.6, then maybe the low LSAT score isn't something to worry about too much, thought you should be able to do better on the LSAT. If you went to ASU and ended up with a 3.6, then going to a T14 law school is going to require a different standard of care, so to speak.

Want to continue reading?

Register for access!

Did I mention it was FREE ?


cslouisck

Bronze
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:59 am

Re: Michigan v UCLA v ASU

Post by cslouisck » Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:55 am

beachnbeer wrote:
I cannot retake for three reasons. Honestly, I am terribly impatient and I need to go straight from undergrad or else it will be difficult for me to go back to school. Another reason is financial, in that I can no longer rely on parents for money/housing and thus need to make a move on my own. Also, my practice LSAT scores were all around the same area with only a few higher and I have no desire to glance upon another logic game. While this may be seem unreasonable, it is a parameter that I choose to have going forward with my law decision


I really have no idea of what type of law I would want to practice. Criminal law seems fascinating but Im sure that is everyone's first impression. Other than that, possibly corporate law, IP/Copyright. Lastly, I wouldn't be opposed to living in Arizona for a while.
OP, wait a year. See whether you can enjoy life without becoming an attorney. If your desire to go to law school is so tenuous that it might vanish if you take some time off, then law school will crush you. And then it will leave you with ~ $230,000 in debt (and that's just the principle, not the interest that'll capitalize during school). You do not get to dabble in criminal law with that kind of debt. You will have to take a biglaw job that, at both Michigan and UCLA, you're not guaranteed to get. $230,000 is a real number. It happens to real people. It is $2,700 per month for 10 years. It does not magically go away because law school was supposed to get you a job that would pay it off.

You say you're impatient. Are you prepared to let that impatience now shackle you for the next 14 years of your life, at the very least?

User avatar
jbagelboy

Diamond
Posts: 10361
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: Michigan v UCLA v ASU

Post by jbagelboy » Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:59 am

Retake the lsat and get a job. Your reasons for not retaking are pretty terrible, you're a senior in college so you have no business heading straight to law school anyway, and you have a sub-160 score.

If you got into Michigan with these numbers, imagine what you could do with a 165?

Don't be foolish and impatient, you'll regret it for the rest of your life. Answer to the poll: none of the above.

User avatar
francesfarmer

Silver
Posts: 1406
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:52 am

Re: Michigan v UCLA v ASU

Post by francesfarmer » Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:02 am

FlightoftheEarls wrote:
beachnbeer wrote:
Winston1984 wrote:Why can't you retake?
I cannot retake for three reasons. Honestly, I am terribly impatient and I need to go straight from undergrad or else it will be difficult for me to go back to school. Another reason is financial, in that I can no longer rely on parents for money/housing and thus need to make a move on my own. Also, my practice LSAT scores were all around the same area with only a few higher and I have no desire to glance upon another logic game. While this may be seem unreasonable, it is a parameter that I choose to have going forward with my law decision
Oh good.
OP, you have a lot to learn about life. Please don't go to law school straight from undergrad. I think you will really regret any of these options.

You need to graduate, face the real world, get a job, and retake.

User avatar
Winston1984

Gold
Posts: 1789
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:02 pm

Re: Michigan v UCLA v ASU

Post by Winston1984 » Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:14 am

jbagelboy wrote:Retake the lsat and get a job. Your reasons for not retaking are pretty terrible, you're a senior in college so you have no business heading straight to law school anyway, and you have a sub-160 score.

If you got into Michigan with these numbers, imagine what you could do with a 165?

Don't be foolish and impatient, you'll regret it for the rest of your life. Answer to the poll: none of the above.
+1

Register now!

Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.

It's still FREE!


User avatar
Mauve.Dino

Bronze
Posts: 171
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:55 am

Re: Michigan v UCLA v ASU

Post by Mauve.Dino » Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:17 am

If you do not retake the LSAT for a higher score, you will regret it for the rest of your life.

eastcoast_iub

Bronze
Posts: 311
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:32 pm

Re: Michigan v UCLA v ASU

Post by eastcoast_iub » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:40 pm

To provide a contrasting viewpoint, UM's LRAP is fantastic, so you will not necessarily be in financial hell if you don't score BigLaw. You can also pencil yourself in for a 1L diversity SA position, so that will ease the debt burden a bit.

That said, as the others have noted, you may not do well at UM considering your stats. Not that they are completely determinative, but to the extent that LSAT predicts performance you will be at a significant disadvantage here. If you are open to the possibility of public interest/government/public defense, I would say go to UM. If you're BigLaw or bust, know that you're taking a big risk and be prepared to work your ass off 1L year. Also, if you can get in summer start, try to do that b/c it will give you an extra semester before OCI that you can take GPA-padding seminars. This is why, to my knowledge, summer starters outperform traditional starters.

BigZuck

Diamond
Posts: 11730
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: Michigan v UCLA v ASU

Post by BigZuck » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:08 pm

eastcoast_iub wrote:To provide a contrasting viewpoint, UM's LRAP is fantastic, so you will not necessarily be in financial hell if you don't score BigLaw. You can also pencil yourself in for a 1L diversity SA position, so that will ease the debt burden a bit.

That said, as the others have noted, you may not do well at UM considering your stats. Not that they are completely determinative, but to the extent that LSAT predicts performance you will be at a significant disadvantage here. If you are open to the possibility of public interest/government/public defense, I would say go to UM. If you're BigLaw or bust, know that you're taking a big risk and be prepared to work your ass off 1L year. Also, if you can get in summer start, try to do that b/c it will give you an extra semester before OCI that you can take GPA-padding seminars. This is why, to my knowledge, summer starters outperform traditional starters.
Lol. So if the OP retook the LSAT and scored 7 points higher (or whatever) because he used better prep materials that means he has statistically improved his chances of having better law school grades at the same exact school?

Come on bro.

The biggest problem with the OP is that he can't focus on what he needs to do to set himself up for success. That's why his lunch will be eaten.

rad lulz

Platinum
Posts: 9807
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: Michigan v UCLA v ASU

Post by rad lulz » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:11 pm

.
Last edited by rad lulz on Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Get unlimited access to all forums and topics

Register now!

I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...


Nomo

Silver
Posts: 700
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:06 am

Re: Michigan v UCLA v ASU

Post by Nomo » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:15 pm

eastcoast_iub wrote:To provide a contrasting viewpoint, UM's LRAP is fantastic, so you will not necessarily be in financial hell if you don't score BigLaw. You can also pencil yourself in for a 1L diversity SA position, so that will ease the debt burden a bit.

That said, as the others have noted, you may not do well at UM considering your stats. Not that they are completely determinative, but to the extent that LSAT predicts performance you will be at a significant disadvantage here. If you are open to the possibility of public interest/government/public defense, I would say go to UM. If you're BigLaw or bust, know that you're taking a big risk and be prepared to work your ass off 1L year. Also, if you can get in summer start, try to do that b/c it will give you an extra semester before OCI that you can take GPA-padding seminars. This is why, to my knowledge, summer starters outperform traditional starters.
UM's LRAP is great . . . assuming PSLF doesn't collapse in the near future. And Obama is apparently ready to gut it. Who is going to stop him? The republicans? The 22,000 people who signed a petition not to gut PSLF?

Personally, I really liked Michigan. I think it has a great public-interest community. I just don't know that you should bank on the LRAP right now.

mvp99

Silver
Posts: 1474
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:00 pm

Re: Michigan v UCLA v ASU

Post by mvp99 » Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:50 pm

its a toss whether you'll be able to pay that money back. Believe me when i say you don't want the pressure of knowing halfway through your first year youre already 60k in the hole and u most likely will never be able to pay it back.. ive seen people sunk in depression.. dont be over optimistic about ur capacity.. i have seen people do well in a top school with that lsat but odds are against u.. ull be against very very smart people ... also urm wont be a huge boost when its time to get a job. gl

CTT

Bronze
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:37 am

Re: Michigan v UCLA v ASU

Post by CTT » Sun Mar 16, 2014 12:48 am

mvp99 wrote:its a toss whether you'll be able to pay that money back. Believe me when i say you don't want the pressure of knowing halfway through your first year youre already 60k in the hole and u most likely will never be able to pay it back.. ive seen people sunk in depression.. dont be over optimistic about ur capacity.. i have seen people do well in a top school with that lsat but odds are against u.. ull be against very very smart people ... also urm wont be a huge boost when its time to get a job. gl
This. If you're in the top half of the class, URM will help you snag a firm job. If you're not, you'll likely be stuck figuring it out with LRAP etc. Then again, go to ASU and you're sure to be stuck struggling.

Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.

Register now, it's still FREE!


Post Reply

Return to “Choosing a Law School”