Seton Hall vs. St. John's Forum

[Branruss]

I was given 35k a year at St. John's law and only given 15k a year at Seton Hall. I understand both won't give me a good shot at big law- but I am not looking for that. Anyone have any advice? My scores are average- and I do not plan on retaking the LSAT.

[CanadianWolf]

As presented, this seems to be no more than a simple math problem.

[timbs4339]

I was given 35k a year at St. John's law and only given 15k a year at Seton Hall. I understand both won't give me a good shot at big law- but I am not looking for that. Anyone have any advice? My scores are average- and I do not plan on retaking the LSAT.

Why no retake?

What are you goals?

What is the total amount you'll be borrowing from each?

[Danger Zone]

These are terrible choices. Not just for biglaw, but for getting any full-time, long term, legal employment.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?r=geographic#list

[Branruss]

My numbers are 156 and 3.41 from a large public school. LGBT applicant- white.
I retook and took prep courses and stayed the same. Goals are to work at a medium sized law firm doing family law. I don't care about big law.

[Danger Zone]

Still awful choices, as I said above.

[BigZuck]

If you're ok with going into a lot of debt and spending 3 years of your life with a high probability of having nothing to show for it, then pick your poison. Personally, I wouldn't do either without a full ride and a healthy lack of risk avoidance.

[sighsigh]

Here's one of Seton Hall's most cherished graduates engaging in the noble practice of law. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls5piYGq-EA You should definitely PM him this thread.

Also, OP: areyouinsane?

[03152016]

With a gun to my head, it'd be Seton Hall for me; St. John's employment numbers are just too scary. Plus, as someone familiar with both areas (I lived in Jamaica, and I've worked in Newark), I prefer Newark.

How many hours did you study, and what prep course did you take?

[BigZuck]

With a gun to my head, it'd be Seton Hall for me; St. John's employment numbers are just too scary. Plus, as someone familiar with both areas (I lived in Jamaica, and I've worked in Newark), I prefer Newark.

How many hours did you study, and what prep course did you take?

Wait, which school is in Jamaica?

[03152016]

With a gun to my head, it'd be Seton Hall for me; St. John's employment numbers are just too scary. Plus, as someone familiar with both areas (I lived in Jamaica, and I've worked in Newark), I prefer Newark.

How many hours did you study, and what prep course did you take?

Wait, which school is in Jamaica?

St. Johns is in Jamaica, Queens.

[LafayetteJeff]

Branruss-- any geographical preference? St. John's is really going to bill you as a NY person. Seton is going to brand you as NJ but also get you interviews in NY. The geographic reach of both Seton and Rutgers is broader than St. John's, Hofstra, NYLS, and that ilk. I am not saying you can't practice in NJ post-St. John's, but you'll likely need to establish yourself in the NY market first before moving to another state.

Since you're not banking on big law, and since you have nice scholarship offers, I would ignore the hate.

Lifestyle-wise, Newark is better than outer Queens. It's actually much quicker to NYC and the transit is better. The amount of internship opportunities, courts, etc. in Newark is much greater than St. John's neighborhood, moreover. I like Queens, but St. John's particular spot is very residential and not too convenient. Things to consider.

[francesfarmer]

What is the total COA for each school?

I'd say retake. Use one of the guides on here for retakers. Prep courses are often garbage. Your GPA is low-ish but that's not what's holding you back. Nobody wants to hear "retake" because its the hardest (present) option but it is the one with the highest return on your investment of time and money, for sure.

[thebobs1987]

Branruss-- any geographical preference? St. John's is really going to bill you as a NY person. Seton is going to brand you as NJ but also get you interviews in NY. The geographic reach of both Seton and Rutgers is broader than St. John's, Hofstra, NYLS, and that ilk. I am not saying you can't practice in NJ post-St. John's, but you'll likely need to establish yourself in the NY market first before moving to another state.

Since you're not banking on big law, and since you have nice scholarship offers, I would ignore the hate.

Lifestyle-wise, Newark is better than outer Queens. It's actually much quicker to NYC and the transit is better. The amount of internship opportunities, courts, etc. in Newark is much greater than St. John's neighborhood, moreover. I like Queens, but St. John's particular spot is very residential and not too convenient. Things to consider.

This is wrong. There is no hate, there's hate on the scholarship offers. OP, you don't have good scholarship offers. Seton Hall and St. John's are only worth it if they're close to free. OP, you can do better than a 156. I am not a t14 person or you need to get a 175 on the LSAT person. I didn't. But the LSAT is a learnable test and everyone should be able to get in the 160s. It is not worth going to school until you do and get more money.

[banjo]

If you're ok with going into a lot of debt and spending 3 years of your life with a high probability of having nothing to show for it, then pick your poison.

This.

There is a decent chance you'll end up totally unemployed out of these schools--no big law, no family law, nothing. Don't go.

[hephaestus]

If you're ok with going into a lot of debt and spending 3 years of your life with a high probability of having nothing to show for it, then pick your poison.

This.

There is a decent chance you'll end up totally unemployed out of these schools--no big law, no family law, nothing. Don't go.

Yes, if you're not going to retake the only rational choice is to not go.

[kaiser]

Prep courses rarely work. Find a personal LSAT tutor who can specifically work to fill in your gaps. With 156, there are still major holes to plug up, so addressing those gaps with a private tutor could easily pad on an extra 5 or 6 points at least, and then your options change entirely. Don't underestimate the extent to which the school you choose, and the debt you take on, could significantly alter the trajectory of your life and career. So sure, 5 LSAT points may not seem like a huge deal, but when you think about all the possible differences down the road, I'd say its worth your time and money to seek out private tutoring in the present.

[hopeful 0L]

OP where are you from? I think Seton Hall is the winner (by default), especially if you want to live/practice in NJ. People are right about the cost though. See if you can retake or at least negotiate to get more money out of them.

Can I ask why Rutgers is not a choice? I'm not necessarily a fan of any of the 3 schools, but why pay 55/yr at Seton Hall (with your "discount") instead of like 35-40/year at rutgers full-freight? Plus, I'd imagine you can get a few bucks from Rutgers. Either way, if these are the schools you're choosing from, it doesn't make much sense to turn your nose up at Rutgers because Seton Hall is ranked 15 spots higher (or w/e it is) when Rutgers/SHU have negligible employment outcomes/prestige. I mean, unless you've on an extra 50-60K you're sitting on.

[LafayetteJeff]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing, though I held back my Rutgers loyalty to give OP a straight-on answer.

And I will go ahead and agree with some of the others, in part-- that it's worth it to go for even more scholarship money.

[Smer45]

Why not apply to BLS or Cardozo? Your numbers are slightly below their 25% but BLS at least seems to be accepting a bunch of people with your stats and offering scholarship

[xRON MEXiCOx]

Dont go to law school

[kaiser]

If I were from NJ, and wanted to work in NJ, I would put absolutely all my effort into (1) getting into Rutgers, and (2) getting a scholarship there to further minimize costs. Given that Rutgers is already 1/2 price compared to Seton Hall, I can't see how Seton Hall would ever be the right choice. And if you didn't get into Rutgers with 156, you are SO close to having a high enough score for admission, since their median is something around 160. You can totally do that. If it can slice your tuition costs in half, you should totally do it.

[donewithannarbor]

^word.

What's your status there?

[Branruss]

I applied to Rutgers back in January and still have yet to hear back. Rutgers is still on my list. I got into BLS but wasn't offered any scholly. Asked seton hall to reconsider scholarship and they said id hear back by the end of the month.
After new rankings, I kind of eliminated St. John's as a choice- they have been on a rapid decline for the worst. And their employment statistics are awful.

Why do many of you talk poorly of Seton Hall. I know it is not comparable to many schools TLSers attend but the employment statistics are decent for it's ranking. ATL ranks it also.

[03152016]

I applied to Rutgers back in January and still have yet to hear back. Rutgers is still on my list. I got into BLS but wasn't offered any scholly. Asked seton hall to reconsider scholarship and they said id hear back by the end of the month.
After new rankings, I kind of eliminated St. John's as a choice- they have been on a rapid decline for the worst. And their employment statistics are awful.

Why do many of you talk poorly of Seton Hall. I know it is not comparable to many schools TLSers attend but the employment statistics are decent for it's ranking. ATL ranks it also.

I think the employment numbers are concerning, but maybe that's just a matter of risk tolerance. The 45k you're getting out of them doesn't justify the risk associated with 35% of students failing to land a LT, FT, JD-required job nine months after graduation. IMO anyways. There are worse options, sure, but at that price, it would be difficult to call SH a good option.