What's considered a "tough" stipulation for schollys? Forum

[caligirl8]

I've been getting scholly offers with stipulations such as....

- having a cumulative GPA in the top 50% by the end of the spring semester

Is this considered a tough stipulation? What would a more lenient one be?

[bjsesq]

I've been getting scholly offers with stipulations such as....

- having a cumulative GPA in the top 50% by the end of the spring semester

Is this considered a tough stipulation? What would a more lenient one be?

The only scholarship stip you should ever consider: remain in good academic standing. Ignore every single school that wants to put any other stipulation on it.

[TheSpanishMain]

I've been getting scholly offers with stipulations such as....

- having a cumulative GPA in the top 50% by the end of the spring semester

Is this considered a tough stipulation? What would a more lenient one be?

There shouldn't be any stipulations at all, beyond not failing out.

[timbs4339]

Good academic standing is the common wisdom. I also use top 80%- if you are in the lowest quintile after the first year you should just drop out anyway.

[BVest]

I've been getting scholly offers with stipulations such as....

- having a cumulative GPA in the top 50% by the end of the spring semester

Is this considered a tough stipulation? What would a more lenient one be?

There shouldn't be any stipulations at all, beyond not failing out.

This (though I'd say good standing, which is pretty much the same). And I sure wouldn't accept anything worse than top 2/3s.

EDIT: That said, I do know of some schools for which their scholarships short of full ride are academic standing and the full ride scholarships have harsh stips (e.g. top third). In those cases, people with a full ride who fail to meet the stips get reduced down to about 50%-67% scholarship (but there are only about 8-10 people in the class with those full ride scholarships, and it's usually 1 or 2 of them who get reduced).

[theotherone823]

As others have mentioned, anything beyond "good academic standing" is undesirable.

While you should always be cautious about stips, one thing that I would be extra cautious about is a stip that sets a hard GPA limit (ie, "maintain a GPA over 3.3") rather than one that sets a percentile (ie "stay in the top 50%"). It might seam relatively easy to maintain a 3.3, for example, but if you don't know where the curve is set you could rather unpleasantly fin that maintaining a 3.3 means you have to be in the top 1/3 of the class.

The ABA requires all law school that award merit scholarships with stipulations to disclose the number of scholarship students that loose their scholarship (either by having it reduced or totally eliminated) as a result of failing to meet stips. Most schools post them right on their web page. I highly recommend you check out those numbers for any schools you are considering before making a decision.

[The Dark Shepard]

Minnesota's is a 2.5. That doesn't seem bad. But maybe?

[CanadianWolf]

Top third is obviously a tougher stipulation than top half. Schools that engage in section stacking of scholarship students with a class rank stipulation are the worst. The only reasonable scholarship stipulation from the student's perspective is to "remain in good standing" (essentially, don't flunk out & don't get kicked out).

[nebula666]

Anything worse than Top 75% or good standing. Top 50% is not worth taking under any circumstance IMO.

[BVest]

Minnesota's is a 2.5. That doesn't seem bad. But maybe?

The middle of their curve is somewhere in the surprisingly broad range of 3.0-3.33. http://www.law.umn.edu/careers/grades.html

For other schools, this is a good place to start because it has a collection of links to their grade/curve pages: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_la ... GPA_curves

[caligirl8]

Thank you for your input everyone! As of right now I have three scholly offers out my four acceptances thus far and the stipulation for all three is to be in the top 50%. Many of you are saying that this stipulation is unacceptable, but is there anything I can do to change it? How should this factor in my decision making process? Isn't a stipulated scholarship better than no scholarship? I'm not too concerned about not making it into the top 50% of the class, but of course I've never attended law school before so anything can happen. Do any of you have advice on how to proceed?

[MKC]

Thank you for your input everyone! As of right now I have three scholly offers out my four acceptances thus far and the stipulation for all three is to be in the top 50%. Many of you are saying that this stipulation is unacceptable, but is there anything I can do to change it? How should this factor in my decision making process? Isn't a stipulated scholarship better than no scholarship? I'm not too concerned about not making it into the top 50% of the class, but of course I've never attended law school before so anything can happen. Do any of you have advice on how to proceed?

Which schools?

[CanadianWolf]

A scholarship with stipulations is better than no scholarship only if you are not giving up better options--including retaking the LSAT. Don't buy a bad or inferior product just because it's on sale.

[caligirl8]

Thank you for your input everyone! As of right now I have three scholly offers out my four acceptances thus far and the stipulation for all three is to be in the top 50%. Many of you are saying that this stipulation is unacceptable, but is there anything I can do to change it? How should this factor in my decision making process? Isn't a stipulated scholarship better than no scholarship? I'm not too concerned about not making it into the top 50% of the class, but of course I've never attended law school before so anything can happen. Do any of you have advice on how to proceed?

Which schools?

I've received big scholarship offers from Pepperdine, USD, and LMU. I'm still waiting on my UC Hastaings offer. I'm also waiting to hear back from UCLA and USC, however with my LSAT and GPA these are my "reach" schools. I want to eventually work here in southern California.

Is is possible to contact the office of financial aid and ask them to change the stipulation to good standing or remove it all together? Have any of you personally or know of someone who has successfully done so?

And I understand that there is the option to retake and reapply again next cycle. For the purpose of this thread, let's please discount that as an option. I will be going to attend law school this fall. It's only a matter of where.

[patogordo]

oh boy

[caligirl8]

oh boy

?

[MKC]

Wait for it...

[Ramius]

Thank you for your input everyone! As of right now I have three scholly offers out my four acceptances thus far and the stipulation for all three is to be in the top 50%. Many of you are saying that this stipulation is unacceptable, but is there anything I can do to change it? How should this factor in my decision making process? Isn't a stipulated scholarship better than no scholarship? I'm not too concerned about not making it into the top 50% of the class, but of course I've never attended law school before so anything can happen. Do any of you have advice on how to proceed?

Which schools?

I've received big scholarship offers from Pepperdine, USD, and LMU. I'm still waiting on my UC Hastaings offer. I'm also waiting to hear back from UCLA and USC, however with my LSAT and GPA these are my "reach" schools. I want to eventually work here in southern California.

Is is possible to contact the office of financial aid and ask them to change the stipulation to good standing or remove it all together? Have any of you personally or know of someone who has successfully done so?

And I understand that there is the option to retake and reapply again next cycle. For the purpose of this thread, let's please discount that as an option. I will be going to attend law school this fall. It's only a matter of where.

This is basically the rallying cry of the horrifyingly short-sighted, isn't it? My god, it is frustrating to see so often around these parts and people expect a somehow different response. Definition of insanity, amirite?

[d cooper]

I've received big scholarship offers from Pepperdine, USD, and LMU. I'm still waiting on my UC Hastaings offer. I'm also waiting to hear back from UCLA and USC, however with my LSAT and GPA these are my "reach" schools. I want to eventually work here in southern California.

Is is possible to contact the office of financial aid and ask them to change the stipulation to good standing or remove it all together? Have any of you personally or know of someone who has successfully done so?

And I understand that there is the option to retake and reapply again next cycle. For the purpose of this thread, let's please discount that as an option. I will be going to attend law school this fall. It's only a matter of where.

At each of those schools, assuming you want to work as a lawyer after graduation, the odds are heavily stacked against you. Less than half the class at each school is able to secure legal employment:

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=pepperdine (45%)
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=sandiego (47%)
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=loyola (41%)
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=hastings (46%)

With that in mind, you shouldn't attend any of these schools unless the scholarships are very large and without stipulations. Even then, understand that you will likely still graduate without a job and struggle to find work. California is a difficult market due to the presence of two T14s and regional powerhouses like UCLA and USC. Objectively, the best thing you can do for your career is retake the LSAT and shoot for UCLA/USC with scholarship as a minimum.

[caligirl8]

Thank you for your input everyone! As of right now I have three scholly offers out my four acceptances thus far and the stipulation for all three is to be in the top 50%. Many of you are saying that this stipulation is unacceptable, but is there anything I can do to change it? How should this factor in my decision making process? Isn't a stipulated scholarship better than no scholarship? I'm not too concerned about not making it into the top 50% of the class, but of course I've never attended law school before so anything can happen. Do any of you have advice on how to proceed?

Which schools?

I've received big scholarship offers from Pepperdine, USD, and LMU. I'm still waiting on my UC Hastaings offer. I'm also waiting to hear back from UCLA and USC, however with my LSAT and GPA these are my "reach" schools. I want to eventually work here in southern California.

Is is possible to contact the office of financial aid and ask them to change the stipulation to good standing or remove it all together? Have any of you personally or know of someone who has successfully done so?

And I understand that there is the option to retake and reapply again next cycle. For the purpose of this thread, let's please discount that as an option. I will be going to attend law school this fall. It's only a matter of where.

This is basically the rallying cry of the horrifyingly short-sighted, isn't it? My god, it is frustrating to see so often around these parts and people expect a somehow different response. Definition of insanity, amirite?

There's really no need to be rude and condescending. I understand that the general consensus of the TLS community subscribes to the "if you're not T14 then retake retake retake" philosophy. I've seen time and time again people come to TLS for help deciding on what school to attend only to be shut down, laughed at and told over and over again that they need to retake. I came to the TLS community and posted here in order to try and learn more about scholarship stipulations so that I can make a more informed decision when selecting my school. I understand that of course my job prospects would be better if I retook and earned a higher LSAT score and were accepted to better schools, but that's just not the case. Which is why I SPECIFICALLY asked that we disregard that particular option for the purpose of this thread. So help me or fuck off you elitist asshole.

[d cooper]

There's really no need to be rude and condescending. I understand that the general consensus of the TLS community subscribes to the "if you're not T14 then retake retake retake" philosophy. I've seen time and time again people come to TLS for help deciding on what school to attend only to be shut down, laughed at and told over and over again that they need to retake. I came to the TLS community and posted here in order to try and learn more about scholarship stipulations so that I can make a more informed decision when selecting my school. I understand that of course my job prospects would be better if I retook and earned a higher LSAT score and were accepted to better schools, but that's just not the case. Which is why I SPECIFICALLY asked that we disregard that particular option for the purpose of this thread. So help me or fuck off you elitist asshole.

It's not about the T14. The worse the job stats, the less you should pay. That's the TLS model in a nutshell.

Since you're looking at schools where less than half the class gets a job, you should not attend unless you have a full ride and can stomach the enormous risk. Are full rides viable with your current LSAT? If not, you absolutely should retake.

[CanadianWolf]

In answer to an earlier question, many law students have successfully negotiated for a lessening of a class rank stipulation to a stipulation of "remains in good standing". Since you have multiple scholarship offers from competing law schools, you should be able to accomplish this.

[MKC]

There's really no need to be rude and condescending. I understand that the general consensus of the TLS community subscribes to the "if you're not T14 then retake retake retake" philosophy. I've seen time and time again people come to TLS for help deciding on what school to attend only to be shut down, laughed at and told over and over again that they need to retake. I came to the TLS community and posted here in order to try and learn more about scholarship stipulations so that I can make a more informed decision when selecting my school. I understand that of course my job prospects would be better if I retook and earned a higher LSAT score and were accepted to better schools, but that's just not the case. Which is why I SPECIFICALLY asked that we disregard that particular option for the purpose of this thread. So help me or fuck off you elitist asshole.

There are plenty of elitist assholes around here, don't get me wrong, but these are the same elitist assholes that told me to go to KU on a full ride instead of taking 90k from WUSTL. (It was pretty evenly split, but barely in favor of KU) If you read closely, that's what they told you to do too. They didn't say "T14 or fuck off." They said "Don't go to regionals unless it's free." FTR, I ended up at WUSTL with a full ride, and I'm a retaker. Not retaking is stupid for anyone with less than a 165, and some would argue higher than that. I don't think I've ever heard anyone on here regret taking time off to retake, even for a marginal improvement. Schools care about that number like nothing else, and you should too. Do you have another plan to make $100k in the next year? I didn't think so. Sit down, shut up, and start prepping.

Or drown in debt and fuck yourself, since we're all elitist assholes around here.

[Ramius]

You want help with making a potentially life-destroying decision, is that it? People don't say retake because they think it's funny and they don't say it to be an elitist asshole, it's just common sense to say it's a better option to take a year to study for and master a learnable test worth potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars with significantly improved employment prospects over this, "nope, I have to go this fall. Nothing else matters" sort of devil may care attitude. Would you take a year off if bill gates said to you, "just study for this test, and if you do well, I'll give you one hundred thousand dollars to go to UCLA."? If the answer is at all a yes, then you need to consider the fact that of the options you set in front of this community, that is by far the best one.

I'm sorry if I came off snarky and not helpful, but you can only see so many horrible choices threads before you snap a little bit.

TL/DR: I'm sorry for being rude, but understand that retake really is an option here, and it's by far the best one. HTH.

[patogordo]

all the elitist assholes in this thread ignoring the obvious fact that OP has a bomb strapped to her that will explode if she doesn't enroll in law school this year.