Wake Forest Vs. UIUC Forum

[Yanky91]

Here it is. Wake Forest is offering $105,000 and the living is dirt cheap. UIUC is offering full tuition, and the living is pretty cheap, but not as cheap as Winston-Salem. It will cost me less than 70k for all three years at wake, and less than 50k for all three years at UIUC.

-I am from the Mid Atlantic area, on the southern end.
-I will pay for my school with loans (no help financially from family)
-I care more about the amount of debt than where I work afterward (although I would like to be near my family). If I have to work in Chicago then I will. I think it is what you make of it.
-I took the LSAT twice

I can retake, but even if I retake I still have to choose one of these two schools (assuming I take it in June). Which of these two would you choose? I also got 36k to WUSTL, 60k to W&L, and full ride to Cardozo.

[AT9]

You have ties to the S. Atlantic? Wake.
Sounds like you prefer to be near home vs. Illinois? Wake.
Mostly concerned about debt? Probably Illinois.

Given these two schools are peers, I think the extra debt (about $25kish?) is probably worth it for Wake since that seems to be where you'd prefer to be. Retake in June and try to get more $ from Wake. They're going all WUSTL this year.

[thebobs1987]

Here it is. Wake Forest is offering $105,000 and the living is dirt cheap. UIUC is offering full tuition, and the living is pretty cheap, but not as cheap as Winston-Salem. It will cost me less than 70k for all three years at wake, and less than 50k for all three years at UIUC.

-I am from the Mid Atlantic area, on the southern end.
-I will pay for my school with loans (no help financially from family)
-I care more about the amount of debt than where I work afterward (although I would like to be near my family). If I have to work in Chicago then I will. I think it is what you make of it.
-I took the LSAT twice

I can retake, but even if I retake I still have to choose one of these two schools (assuming I take it in June). Which of these two would you choose? I also got 36k to WUSTL, 60k to W&L, and full ride to Cardozo.

I am at Illinois now. A full ride is a great deal, but only if you want to be in the midwest. If you want to be in NC/VA probably worth it to go to Wake, just push them to go to a full ride. Cardozo is a no and WUSTL and W&L are definite nos at that price

[Yanky91]

Do you think UIUC is ever going to be the rank that it was two years ago?

[thebobs1987]

Do you think UIUC is ever going to be the rank that it was two years ago?

At some point it will go back into the top 25. The alumni and employment numbers are too good for it to stay down. I wouldn't look at USNWR though. It doesn't really matter, look at employment stats. Even though Illinois is number 47 right now in USNWR, it is still a top 25 school in terms of placement in big law and boutiques. I picked Illinois over Minnesota and WUSTL because their numbers are better. Illinois gave me more than double a chance at big law than Minnesota did even though Minnesota is ranked 19. I also wanted to be in Chicago. If you don't want to be in Chicago, St. Louis, or Indy then Illinois doesn't make a whole lot of sense. But I am definitely happy with my decision. If you are torn between Wake and Illinois, I would recommend visiting both of them. That was another reason I chose UIUC was I enjoyed the ASD and the vibe more than other schools.

[North]

Bro do you want to live in the Midwest or the South?

[Yanky91]

Bro do you want to live in the Midwest or the South?

The midwest. I don't particularly like being so far away from my family, but it's a two hour flight away. Not a big deal. Also, I prefer the cold. The big question is, which one will afford me better employment opportunities? It seems like UIUC at this point.

[AMilfordMan]

Bro do you want to live in the Midwest or the South?

The midwest. I don't particularly like being so far away from my family, but it's a two hour flight away. Not a big deal. Also, I prefer the cold. The big question is, which one will afford me better employment opportunities? It seems like UIUC at this point.

UIUC 1L here. I was initially leaning toward Wake given your loose ties to the region, but if you really are ok with ending up in the Midwest, then save the money and come to UIUC. Your overall job prospects seem more or less the same at either school, but you have twice the chance of landing biglaw at UIUC.

[deadpanic]

Bro do you want to live in the Midwest or the South?

The midwest. I don't particularly like being so far away from my family, but it's a two hour flight away. Not a big deal. Also, I prefer the cold. The big question is, which one will afford me better employment opportunities? It seems like UIUC at this point.

UIUC 1L here. I was initially leaning toward Wake given your loose ties to the region, but if you really are ok with ending up in the Midwest, then save the money and come to UIUC. Your overall job prospects seem more or less the same at either school, but you have twice the chance of landing biglaw at UIUC.

Twice the chance at big law? I don't know if that's right.

I think both offer you about the same as far as job prospects.

[thebobs1987]

deleted

[AMilfordMan]

Bro do you want to live in the Midwest or the South?

The midwest. I don't particularly like being so far away from my family, but it's a two hour flight away. Not a big deal. Also, I prefer the cold. The big question is, which one will afford me better employment opportunities? It seems like UIUC at this point.

UIUC 1L here. I was initially leaning toward Wake given your loose ties to the region, but if you really are ok with ending up in the Midwest, then save the money and come to UIUC. Your overall job prospects seem more or less the same at either school, but you have twice the chance of landing biglaw at UIUC.

Twice the chance at big law? I don't know if that's right.

I think both offer you about the same as far as job prospects.

NLJ numbers for the class of 2013:
21.49% for UIUC
vs
11.8% at Wake

Granted, that's not twice the chance, but it's close enough in my book to throw out in conversation.

[isuperserial]

Unless you have a very good reason to go to Wake Forest, UIUC is objectively the better decision. There is not really anything as far as employment or cost of attendance that could possibly justify going to Wake Forest over UIUC. But that's not to say there is no personal reason that couldn't sway you in that direction, but that's a decision you'll have to make yourself.

[Yanky91]

Unless you have a very good reason to go to Wake Forest, UIUC is objectively the better decision. There is not really anything as far as employment or cost of attendance that could possibly justify going to Wake Forest over UIUC. But that's not to say there is no personal reason that couldn't sway you in that direction, but that's a decision you'll have to make yourself.

Thank you for the advice. I agree. IUIC seems like the right decision especially because it will be 20-30k less than WF. Besides, free law school, and a low cost of living is win win. Even if I don't get the highly coveted biglaw, I can work in a small firm and easily pay off the amount of debt I will have coming out of UIUC in this situation.

[downinDtown]

Bro do you want to live in the Midwest or the South?

The midwest. I don't particularly like being so far away from my family, but it's a two hour flight away. Not a big deal. Also, I prefer the cold. The big question is, which one will afford me better employment opportunities? It seems like UIUC at this point.

UIUC 1L here. I was initially leaning toward Wake given your loose ties to the region, but if you really are ok with ending up in the Midwest, then save the money and come to UIUC. Your overall job prospects seem more or less the same at either school, but you have twice the chance of landing biglaw at UIUC.

Twice the chance at big law? I don't know if that's right.

I think both offer you about the same as far as job prospects.

2013 NLJ figures
Illinois placed 49 out 228 (21.49%)
Wake Forest placed 19 out of 161 (11.80%)

So almost twice is right. See http://[link redacted]/isP1J6 and http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 6&start=25

Hack / scooped - my bad

[cotiger]

Wake Forest would result in about $105,000 debt at repayment.
IUIC would result in about $60,000 debt at repayment.

[Yanky91]

Wake Forest would result in about $105,000 debt at repayment.
IUIC would result in about $60,000 debt at repayment.

Do you mean after paying off interest and principal? If that's what you're referring to then that sounds about right. Where did you get this from? Did you use a loan calculator?

[Yanky91]

2013 NLJ figures
Illinois placed 49 out 228 (21.49%)
Wake Forest placed 19 out of 161 (11.80%)

So almost twice is right. See http://[link redacted]/isP1J6 and http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 6&start=25

Hack / scooped - my bad

I did not know there was that big of a difference between the two. Very interesting. Thanks.

[cotiger]

Wake Forest would result in about $105,000 debt at repayment.
IUIC would result in about $60,000 debt at repayment.

Do you mean after paying off interest and principal? If that's what you're referring to then that sounds about right. Where did you get this from? Did you use a loan calculator?

Nope. That's how much you'll owe when the debt comes due 9 months after you graduate.

Here's a calculator: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1AHcFN ... MtTFE/edit

[Yanky91]

Nope. That's how much you'll owe when the debt comes due 9 months after you graduate.

Here's a calculator: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1AHcFN ... MtTFE/edit

That makes no sense. Are you sure you calculated it correctly?

[cotiger]

Nope. That's how much you'll owe when the debt comes due 9 months after you graduate.

Here's a calculator: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1AHcFN ... MtTFE/edit

That makes no sense. Are you sure you calculated it correctly?

Wake Forest: $42,775 1L tuition; $20,706 1L COL; 3.41% yearly tuition increase; $35,000/yr scholarship
UIUC: $17,767 1L COL

Other assumptions: 2% yearly COL increase; 10 year treasury rates of 2.73%, 3.3%, and 3.6%; tuition increases based on previous five years change in tution

[cotiger]

Oops, psych! I actually was incorrect. Though not in the way you would prefer. Those figures quoted are actually what the loan balances will be at graduation. After the 9 month grace period, the amounts owed would be Wake Forest $110,000 and UIUC $65,000.

[Yanky91]

Wake Forest: $42,775 1L tuition; $20,706 1L COL; 3.41% yearly tuition increase; $35,000/yr scholarship
UIUC: $17,767 1L COL

Other assumptions: 2% yearly COL increase; 10 year treasury rates of 2.73%, 3.3%, and 3.6%; tuition increases based on previous five years change in tution

There is no way COL is 21k in Winston-Salem. I visited this past weekend and found a two bed two bath across the street from the university that is going for $725 a month. Also, I think the $18k you have for UIUC is too high as well. These numbers are the worst case scenario. I'm also looking at Federal Loans with an interest rate of 5.8% fixed. Yeah I think your numbers are way too high.

[AMilfordMan]

Wake Forest: $42,775 1L tuition; $20,706 1L COL; 3.41% yearly tuition increase; $35,000/yr scholarship
UIUC: $17,767 1L COL

Other assumptions: 2% yearly COL increase; 10 year treasury rates of 2.73%, 3.3%, and 3.6%; tuition increases based on previous five years change in tution

There is no way COL is 21k in Winston-Salem. I visited this past weekend and found a two bed two bath across the street from the university that is going for $725 a month. Also, I think the $18k you have for UIUC is too high as well. These numbers are the worst case scenario. I'm also looking at Federal Loans with an interest rate of 5.8% fixed. Yeah I think your numbers are way too high.

One could live frugally in Champaign-Urbana for 15k/yr. However, cost saving measures pretty easily succumb to time saving and sanity saving measures while in law school.

If you will be taking out loans to cover every single bit of COL, plus paying university fees, buying books, and all the other little odd expenses of being a law student, I would guess that 60-65k at graduation doesn't sound too far fetched.

[cotiger]

Wake Forest: $42,775 1L tuition; $20,706 1L COL; 3.41% yearly tuition increase; $35,000/yr scholarship
UIUC: $17,767 1L COL

Other assumptions: 2% yearly COL increase; 10 year treasury rates of 2.73%, 3.3%, and 3.6%; tuition increases based on previous five years change in tution

There is no way COL is 21k in Winston-Salem. I visited this past weekend and found a two bed two bath across the street from the university that is going for $725 a month. Also, I think the $18k you have for UIUC is too high as well. These numbers are the worst case scenario. I'm also looking at Federal Loans with an interest rate of 5.8% fixed. Yeah I think your numbers are way too high.

I'm just using the COL the school provided to the ABA last year plus a 2% increase. But I can re-run it with, say, $16k COL at each.

You're not going to get a 5.8% loan. Today the 10 yr t-note closed at 2.74, which would be 6.34%/7.34% for Stafford/GradPLUS. That's still extremely low historically, and with the economy improving it will likely rise over the next two and a half years.

With reduced COL, it's still ~$93,000 at repayment at WF and ~$59,000 at repayment at UIUC.

[Yanky91]

Ok. But this is also assuming that I don't get any summer position, and I don't find a job at graduation. Still, I think 60-65k is very manageable compared to what other people take out. If this is true then Wake is going to cost me about 90k. If that's the case then UIUC is a no-brainer.