3yr JD/MBA vs. 4yr JD/MBA Forum

[goriman]

Hey all. I am having a hard time deciding which school to attend and thought that collective wisdom of tls could help me out

Facts:
- Non-trad (early 30s)
- No business background
- In at a t14 3 year JD/MBA
- In at several HYSCCN
- Good LSAT, bad GMAT (no prep)
- Thinks top law school is a safer bet than b-school for a career change
- Cost is not an issue

Objectives:
- Lucrative white collar job after law school and/or b-school
- Long term interest in business, therefore the desire to do b-school

I would really like to go to a HYSCCN and apply for 4 year JD/MBA program after retaking the GMAT. I am aware that at my age it is best that I get back to work ASAP rather than doing an additional year of school. My experience has taught me that once you get the job, the name on your degree doesn't matter much. However, I was told that pedigree is really important for big law or high-end business jobs. So I am confuesd. Should I just take the 3 year JD/MBA or try my chances for a 4 year HYSCCN JD/MBA despite my age?

Thanks!

[bdubs]

This is going to depend on what school you're talking about. If the 3 year JD/MBA is Cornell (or Duke?) then I would take the shot at a T6 due to the relative weakness of the business school. The other 3 year JD/MBAs in the T14 (Northwestern, Penn, Columbia) all have good enough b-schools (in the M7) that you will have access to "high end business jobs." At least the kind that will take a non-traditional (consulting, banking, general management, etc.) They will also have pretty good placement in biglaw relative to your other T6 choices. Check out the latest NLJ go-to law schools and you will see that all of those schools are in the 50-65% big law range.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog ... chool.html

A lot of people on here will tell you that HYS is a safer bet, and for law they are probably right. The chance of getting into the b-school for all but Yale is not super high, though. Stanford is damn near impossible to get in and Harvard is really hard. B-school admissions are way more involved than law school admissions and you can never accurately predict based purely on numbers, so a higher GMAT is not all that matters. Bottom line will depend on how much you value the b-school degree.

[igo2northwestern]

NU's JD/MBAs have no problem getting jobs in BigLaw or consulting. For the latter field, Kellogg has a real solid reputation with consulting firms, so if those are the two fields you're considering (and you've been admitted there), I'd recommend matriculating.

The top programs are typically Harvard(4)/Stanford(4)/Penn/Chicago(4)/NU/Columbia, and I'm mentioning NU not because I go there, but because my understanding is that the business school carries significant weight + is very successful with placements. I speak from the perspective of someone who is well-informed about business careers & most MBA programs -- I took the GMAT and considered the JD/MBA.

As for other T14, Duke, UVa, Berkeley, UMich, Cornell, and Georgetown have business schools that fall out of the top tier, so I'd recommend thinking hard about what sort of career you're interested in post-JD/MBA and taking a closer look at their placements in that field. I'm not neglecting NYU by any means; if you're interested in Biglaw, they're obviously solid; Stern, however, doesn't carry that same weight as some of the other business schools. Also, when you said you were admitted to T14 JD/MBA, I assumed that you weren't admitted there.

That largely answers your question about the difference between top tier business and lower tier business. But it doesn't address whether to take a 3 year versus 4 year dual degree. If I were you, I'd do the four year only if it were Harvard/Stanford. If you were admitted into Chicago, I'd surmise that you'd have a good chance at (at least) one of Penn/NU/Columbia JDMBA programs, and I'd naturally suggest one of those since they all have 3 year programs. The exits out of Penn/NU/Columbia easily rival Chicago.

As for Harvard/Stanford vs Penn/NU/Columbia, the question then -- assuming once more that you're only interested in business or BigLaw -- is whether you're interested in consulting, finance, management, entrepreneurship, tech, or some other field. Do Harvard/Stanford give you that edge? Perhaps for entrepreneurship, tech, international business, and to some extent, long-term management. Finance & consulting* can be answered by Penn/NU/Columbia.

[goriman]

If I do end up at a t6 law school, I plan to apply to b-school during my 2L year, so Columbia, Penn, and Yale's 3 year programs will not be an option for me.

I am wondering, doesn't age matter for recruitng? If I do a 4 year program, I will be 35 when I am done. For the sake of argument, is a 4 year Penn JD/MBA a better choice than a 3 year Cornell JD/MBA considering my career goals and age?

I am open to both business and law jobs after school, but I am under the impresssion that big law tends to be more forgiving regarding age whereas fnance or consulting seems to be less forgiving.

Maybe I should just take the t6 JD and call it a day? I just felt that getting an additional MBA could prove to be useful down the road - maybe it's not.

Thank you all for your input, it definitely helped

[CanadianWolf]

You may be short-changing yourself by concealing which few HYSCCN law schools admitted you. Is there any reason to withhold this info.?

[Tiago Splitter]

If I do end up at a t6 law school, I plan to apply to b-school during my 2L year, so Columbia, Penn, and Yale's 3 year programs will not be an option for me.

Why not apply during your 1L year? That's what people generally do.

I know you said cost is not an issue but for anyone lurking keep in mind that even a three year JD/MBA will require 4 years of tuition. That's what stopped me.

[bdubs]

If I do end up at a t6 law school, I plan to apply to b-school during my 2L year, so Columbia, Penn, and Yale's 3 year programs will not be an option for me.

Like the above comments, this doesn't really make sense to me. Apply as a 1L. I think some schools with 4 year programs even require applying during 1L and not as a 2L.

I am wondering, doesn't age matter for recruitng? If I do a 4 year program, I will be 35 when I am done. For the sake of argument, is a 4 year Penn JD/MBA a better choice than a 3 year Cornell JD/MBA considering my career goals and age?

I am open to both business and law jobs after school, but I am under the impresssion that big law tends to be more forgiving regarding age whereas fnance or consulting seems to be less forgiving.

In your early 30s age doesn't matter much to employers especially just one year (34 vs. 35). Law firms, consulting firms and investment banks all hire people in their early 30s for associate positions. It probably matters much more to you on a personal level though.

Also, you haven't clearly articulated any real career goals. Just getting a lucrative white collar job is not a career trajectory. Think a little harder about what you want from life and graduate school.

Maybe I should just take the t6 JD and call it a day? I just felt that getting an additional MBA could prove to be useful down the road - maybe it's not.

If you just want to work as a lawyer in a big law firm or general counsel's office for the remainder of your career you should take the best law school you get in to and not look back (assuming cost really isn't an issue). There is very little benefit to having an MBA for a generic law career.

[patogordo]

start a business or something. if you fail your parents can bail you out. may as well aim high if you can't lose.

[thewaves]

You need to be more specific with your goals if you're interested in a JD/MBA.

[kartelite]

The top programs are typically Harvard(4)/Stanford(4)/Penn/Chicago(4)/NU/Columbia, and I'm mentioning NU not because I go there, but because my understanding is that the business school carries significant weight + is very successful with placements. I speak from the perspective of someone who is well-informed about business careers & most MBA programs -- I took the GMAT and considered the JD/MBA.

I would definitely throw Yale's program in there. Its MBA program, though relatively new, is definitely solid, and the difference between "Yale Law" and schools like Penn or NU (even CC) I think compensates for any perceived lack of cachet at SOM.

ETA: I think the relative strength of programs would probably depend on whether you were more concerned with legal or business opportunities. You could make an argument that Yale >= H/S > P/C/C/NU for strictly law opportunities, but P/C/C/NU > Yale for the business world.

[bdubs]

Prospective JD/MBA students may apply to HLS and HBS concurrently or during the first year at either school. Students cannot enroll in the JD/MBA program if they are not enrolled in HBS by their second year at Harvard. All HLS applicants must submit an LSAT score and all HBS applicants are required to submit a GMAT or GRE score.

--LinkRemoved--

[goriman]

I applied to 3 year JD/MBA programs because it seemed to be a good idea back then. Before applying I was pretty sure that I was going to practice law after school. But since I don't have much business knowledge and experience, I thought getting an additional degree in business with a JD in 3 years would be nice.

Columbia and Penn's b-schools didn't like me much, but their law schools did From where I come from, all the schools I've applied to are excellent and to be honest the importance of ranking in law school world is quite baffling.

What I gleaned from tls is that in most cases t6 is strongly recommended over t14. So at the moment I think I will take the offer from the highest ranked law school. It seems to be the better choice as I will still have the chance to pursue joint degree program.

If I do choose to do a JD/MBA program (and they accept me), I want to do 4 year program because it will make it possible for me get a business internship before I graduate which would help me decide between big law and business.

One last question to be sure: for legal employment, if all else equal, is a JD from Chicago or Columbia better than a 3 year JD/MBA from Cornell or Duke?

Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[bdubs]

One last question to be sure: for legal employment, if all else equal, is a JD from Chicago or Columbia better than a 3 year JD/MBA from Cornell or Duke?

Yes. For legal employment, a JD from Chicago or Columbia will be better than a JD/MBA from Cornell or Duke. Decide whether you like Chicago or New York better and then pick the school in that city.