AMLAW100 Financial Analyst moving to Corporate Law Forum

[jdsuitsmba]

Looking for general advice about choosing a law school given an unusual situation.

After graduating undergrad back in 2011 I decided to start working for an AMLAW100 firm (ranked 50-80) on the business side instead of going directly into law school. Since then I have spent the last couple years moving up in my firm's finance department and going to business school. I finish my MBA at the end of the month and will be finally taking the step onto law school in the fall. I fully intend on working in big law (in M&A, PE, VC, or something similar) after school and know that I will be able to return to my current firm once I have finished up at law school. I'm really only interested in part-time programs in Boston and NYC at the moment so I can stay at my current firm. Of the PT schools I applied to, I was accepted to Suffolk, Cardozo, Brooklyn, and St. John's. I am not terribly worried about debt load as I will be working full time and I have essentially a guaranteed big law job coming out of school. While I love my firm, we do not do lots of ground-breaking legal work. As such I am more than willing to trade up if given the option.

Of the four schools which provide the most growth potential? From what I can tell you can make WilmerHale, Goodwin, Ropes Gray, etc. from Suffolk (obviously top of class). 'Dozo and Brooklyn seem to be able to place occasionally into Vault 5. I would also be willing to transfer after the first year to a full time program (BU or BC from Suffolk) or (NYU, Columbia, or Fordham from 'Dozo or Brooklyn). I'd only be willing to go full time if I was sure that I'd be able to find a better job from the full time school than my current AMLAW 50-80 option. I'm thinking 'Dozo may be the best bet especially since their program starts in May meaning a transfer from PT to FT would be easier.

Anyone have any ideas or issues I haven't thought up?

[yomisterd]

If you want to do BigLaw BigDeal work, survey says don't go part-time, go full time to a good school. Always assume median, and median at those schools will wind you up at best right where you already are but hundreds of thousands poorer.

[lawhopeful10]

If the job at your previous firm is absolutely guaranteed you should choose whichever school keeps your cost of attendance the lowest. All of these schools have low big law numbers and it's never good idea to expect to finish near the top of your class so you should plan on going back to your previous firm being the most likely option.

[jdsuitsmba]

I agree with you both, but I'm also aware that options have real value. I would imagine that working in big law I have a better picture of the legal economy than most people on the forum. I am less informed about law school percentages. What percent of 'Dozo / Brooklyn can make a transfer to Fordham PT (top 20%-ish)? I think I have heard that for a reasonable shot at Columbia or NYU from Cardozo / Brooklyn you need to be top 5%. I would imagine that BU or BC from Suffolk would require at least top 10-5%. Does this seem all seem reasonable?

Again, I have no issues with coming back to my firm. I just want to make sure I put myself in the best position to take advantage of whatever situation I find myself in.

[timbs4339]

Look, I've been through several rounds of biglaw interviews as a law student and attorney, and they are almost criminally obsessed with pedigree, especially the places that you say you want to trade up to. It's not even just going to a T6 school, it's going to a T6 school and scoring in the top X% of the class. You wouldn't believe how little experience matters if you don't have the grades/school, plenty of paras have found that out the hard way.

So I'd recommend to go part time at whatever school gives you the lowest cost. In the event you hit the lottery and get top 5% you can evaluate your options then.

[iamgeorgebush]

agree with other poster that if you KNOW you'll be able to return to your current firm, then you should go to the cheapest school of those you listed.

however

how do you KNOW you'll be able to return to your current firm? you think your buddies there are going to remain your buddies if you find yourself at median at cardozo and are asking them for a job? no way.

also, i don't know about columbia and nyu, but i know that georgetown doesn't allow its own PT students to transfer to the FT program. it would greatly surprise me if CLS and NYU allowed PT students from other schools to transfer to their FT programs.

re: which of those schools gives you the best shot at biglaw...well, head on over to http://www.lstscorereports.com and look for yourself. i think you'll find that they all give you pretty low odds, but cardozo is probably best.

[TigerDude]

as others have said it seems unlikely that your chosen options will really give you options others than sticking at your current employer.

[MrAnon]

You work at a top 100 firm and claim to have "essentially" a guaranteed big law job coming out of school. Your guaranteed biglaw job is your current finance department position, assuming you retain it through school. Your firm won't have much use for you as an associate if you make median grades in law school. Moreover T100 firms fail at a rate of 1 every 2 years. See Dewey, Howrey, Heller Ehrman.

"Finance department" is law firm speak for billing department. There is no "high finance" behind-the-scenes area of firms, especially firms at the lower end of the T100. Office managers are perfectly capable of doing the office budget. There is business development side but anyone with a four year degree and basic powerpoint skills can handle that.

What's more, you are talking about making a jump from a T80 firm to a T5 firm to do PE and M&A work, and you are going to accomplish this through Suffolk night school?? You don't seem to grasp how big of a jump this is intellectually on every level.

[dudley12]

a "financial analyst" working at a law firm..? this seems made up.

[timbs4339]

Have you actually been told by someone with hiring authority "you will have an associate position here upon graduation from any law school" or are you just making an assumption?

[froglee]

Financial analyst,is that your real title in the company

[TigerDude]

Law firms must hire accountants.

[jdsuitsmba]

Wow, lots of angst. Wasn't really looking for an argument on this but:

Yes I am one of a couple financial analysts working for my firm. No this doesn't make me a billing coordinator or a collections analyst. As some of you all may know the legal economy is no longer able to set whatever rates it chooses. My job is to competitively price our staff to maintain our value to our clients. This includes modeling alternative fee arrangements and general market trends. What many of you seem to fail to grasp is that practicing law, especially BigLaw, is still a business. Partners own the business and only higher associates, paralegals, and various other staff members if it makes their life easier or more profitable. My job is to make sure they make the most money they can. Now I can tell you that we are rated in the 50's of the AmLaw known predominantly for our mid-market work in PE and VC funds as well as IP and Energy. I can also tell you that the entire legal industry is starting to look at law more like a business than ever before. With the introduction of "Legal Project Management" firms are looking to stream line operations, set prices more effectively, and distinguish their services better so that they can charge more for their work.

As for me, over the last couple years I've become good friends with not only the managing partner of the firm but also the hiring partner (and no they are not the same person). The hiring partner has encouraged me to go to law school and promised me a job when I return. What's more even if I weren't to follow the traditional associate path I should have no problem working up to a Pricing Director or CFO position at a BigLaw firm in the future. My MBA is in Pricing and Corporate accounting.

I understand that you all work very hard for your admissions to your various top law schools. Personally, I was in a position where I didn't have the time between my full time finance job and my evening top 20 MBA program to study for the LSAT. I further understand that common advice on the forum is to take the time, study hard, and retake the LSAT. I'm not going to. I'm in a position that I won't have to take on any debt while doing part-time law school. Also, as I've said, I believe that I should have a position with my firm regardless what school I graduate from. I want to be a lawyer because I love the law, that's it. If I have to "settle" for a finance position, so be it. But I'm going to take the shot.

All I was wondering was of the schools I listed which would offer the highest chance for moving above the AmLaw 50's. I understand that the chances are slim. That wasn't the question I asked. So...I guess I'll just say what I was planning on doing and then go off and do it. I was thinking that I am going to go with Cardozo. Not only are they the highest ranked of the choices I asked about, their program begins in May meaning that should I do exceedingly well, transferring will be easier considering that by the end of 1L I will be caught up with all of the other full time 1L's in the world.

Thanks for the effort.

[McAvoy]

I think you meant "hire." Can't be making those mistakes in AMLAW100, dude.

[timbs4339]

1) You seem rather defensive. Look, lots of us are lawyers. We understand that biglaw is a business. We work in biglaw or have friends who work in biglaw. Understand (like actually internalize this) that your experience is not going to give you a leg up on law school exams, nor does it seem like it's the type that would give you a leg up in the interviewing process without the grades or school (i.e. it's not patent related stuff or client-side financial work).

2) We want to know whether you have a confirmed offer because all too often people come to this forum, claim they have a job lined up, and it turns out to be just some offhand comment made by a partner at a mixer or even just a reasonable assumption based on the belief that the legal job market is rational. It's not.

3) Your plan sounds ok. If you go to Dozo and hit the lottery, good luck on you. But if you wind up in the bottom 50% (remember that 50% of Dozo 1Ls will be below median!), you might want to seriously think about dropping out and just going back to your old job. As you said, biglaw is a business and you have a career path already. Steve DiCarmine was making millions as the CFO of Dewey without even having been an associate. Obviously you don't want to emulate him, but something to keep in mind.

[jdsuitsmba]

The defensiveness is due to MrAnon's failed attempt at "decoding" what I really mean (straw-man).

McAvoy, haha. I saw that too, after I had hit enter, but figured editing my post would cause more trouble than leaving it in. I think there's probably a run on sentence in there too .

timbs I appreciate your info. I also get that being mediocre at a mediocre school doesn't help anyone move up in the world. I have no intention of taking it easy and resting on "my connections" by being at or below median. Should I find myself in that situation it obviously pays to have a back up plan.

[MrAnon]

Plenty of people with full time day jobs kill the LSAT. If you think juggling the studying for it was hard, wait until law school when you can't go at your own pace anymore.