NYU v. Columbia for Crim Law Forum

[greennblue]

NYU Pros
- Great clinics
- Reputation for institutional support for those seeking PI/Criminal Law career path
- Solid LRAP plan

NYU Cons
- Not as stellar a reputation outside of the east coast
- COL
- Greater competition within the same school for the same positions

Columbia Pros
- More well known brand
- Solid externships to gain experience
- OK LRAP plan
- Individualized attention from PI career help/lack of competition within student body

Columbia Cons
- Institutional emphasis placed on biglaw careers
- COL
- Wary of a lack of opportunities to gain meaningful, substantive experience while in school

Any other thoughts/considerations I should be accounting for? Thanks in advance for the help.

[0913djp]

Tough decision, for sure. I think you are going to have to visit both and see which one you like more.

I personally find that NYU will have more like-minded students and more opportunities but the externships Columbia has in Harlem/The Bronx are pretty good as well.

Make sure you understand the COL is going to be atrocious either way but the Columbia housing will be slightly cheaper and easier given its location.

[greennblue]

Thanks dude/dudette.

Tough indeed - I feel like I wake up every morning and alternate between the two. Columbia's the one today, NYU's the one tomorrow.

Definitely plan on visting, although I don't think I'll be able to make the ASWs. We'll see where I end up after seeing the schools in person.

[sinfiery]

The amount of institutional support for those focusing on PI at NYU is pretty astounding. It should be a pretty big plus for anyone jumping into PI.

At the same time, I don't think "individualized attention" exists in law schools as big as NYU or Columbia. Maybe if you have a named scholarship, but I highly doubt it.

You are just another body in a giant class. You'll have to take the initiative if you want to explore this pathway and NYU at last has the institutional programs available to help you with that.

Maybe CLS does too, not sure.



COL is basically equal since I think CLS has a slightly higher tuition.

[CanadianWolf]

Do whatever you can to make the ASWs at NYU & Columbia before deciding.

[smaug_]

Ask both schools if you can talk with students about externships/clinics.

[gma221]

I'm a 0L, but my vote is for NYU. I'm eight years out of undergrad and have spent most of that time doing criminal justice policy/advocacy work. I'm probably going to end up at Stanford, but if I didn't have a compelling reason to stay on the west coast, my decision would be far more difficult (it's difficult as-is). That said, I'm not an unbiased source. I went to NYU for undergrad and interned at the law school (on a prisoner reentry project) for over a year. I also took a few undergrad seminars taught by law professors, and they were among my favorite classes. Basically, I love NYU and the law school. (I didn't apply to Columbia.)

Have you received a targeted email from a criminal law professor? I got one yesterday. Here are the resources he pointed me toward (though you probably already found these on your own):

http://crimejustice.law.nyu.edu
http://www.law.nyu.edu/centers/adminofcriminallaw
http://www.law.nyu.edu/academics/areaso ... al/faculty

If you would like his email address, feel free to PM me. It might be worth reaching out and asking questions about your specific area(s) of interest.

Also, if you haven't already, check out NYU's YouTube channel. There are some great criminal law-related talks. (Yes, watching legal discussions is the sort of thing I do in my spare time.)

NYU Cons
- Not as stellar a reputation outside of the east coast

Not so sure about this. I work in the criminal justice arena in a smallish market on the west coast, and my colleagues hold NYU in high esteem. One coworker, who isn't an attorney herself but has spent her entire career working with them, even knew that Bryan Stevenson and Vanita Gupta teach there. I guess it might depend on what sort of criminal law you want to do, but in the advocacy world, NYU seems to have an excellent reputation.

Hope that helps - and that I don't sound like a total NYU-obsessed freak.

[greennblue]

Awesome! Biased or objective - it doesn't really matter to me. I was just hoping to hear different perspectives to broaden my own. Thanks everyone for the feedback!

[Ohiobumpkin]

I would think that your guiding light should be which one has the lowest COA. Both are awesome schools and you can't go wrong. If COA is equal, however, I think NYU would be marginally better than Columbia given NYU's reputation for PI.

[djaja]

No clue if you dream of prosecution, but NYU's the way to go for PD work. The PD resources/students/clinics/clubs are ridic.

[worldtraveler]

You want to do DA/PD or public service criminal law in some capacity? Pick whichever one has better postgrad funding. That is probably NYU.

[kaiser]

Given your interests, I think the scales tip toward NYU.

[greennblue]

Thanks again. All of the input has been incredibly helpful.

No clue if you dream of prosecution, but NYU's the way to go for PD work. The PD resources/students/clinics/clubs are ridic.

If I did end up with that prosecution dream, is there a significant difference between the schools? My intuition says that NYU still comes in a bit better off than CLS but was hoping someone might be able to confirm/deny.

[sjgonzalez3]

Another thing to consider would be the extent of the alumni network of each respective school in those fields.

Given that 9.4% of Columbia graduates went into PI last reported year, and 14.3% of NYU graduates went into PI last reported year you will have more alumni in those fields (especially when you consider the difference in class size 366C/451N).

[djaja]

Thanks again. All of the input has been incredibly helpful.

No clue if you dream of prosecution, but NYU's the way to go for PD work. The PD resources/students/clinics/clubs are ridic.

If I did end up with that prosecution dream, is there a significant difference between the schools? My intuition says that NYU still comes in a bit better off than CLS but was hoping someone might be able to confirm/deny.

Hah, my only advice for people who dream of prosecution is to read this.

[gma221]

If I did end up with that prosecution dream, is there a significant difference between the schools? My intuition says that NYU still comes in a bit better off than CLS but was hoping someone might be able to confirm/deny.

Hah, my only advice for people who dream of prosecution is to read this.

+1

[sd5289]

Snarkiness about the "prosecution dream" aside, you definitely need to ask yourself this before choosing a school. I'm not as familiar with Columbia as I didn't read their environment to be all that facilitative of either PD/DA in any capacity. NYU is more focused on crim, but as someone pointed out, basically PD focused. It's not bad to be an aspiring ADA in a PD-dominated environment. It's been good for me to be surrounded by a "check" if you will, and I've learned a lot from the aspiring PD's around me, but it can be a bit ridiculous sometimes.

Generally, the crim kids come in oriented one way or another and either realize they were "right" in their focus or do a complete 180. My advice would be to hit the school that has the breadth of students/curriculum that allows you to do explore that (in my experience, Columbia didn't have the same kind of breadth for crim students).