UChicago vs. Berkeley vs. Cornell Forum

[aena]

Thanks, wisdom of TLS!

[gchatbrah]

If money is truly not an issue, UChicago all the way, and I'd say to take them over Columbia. ~40 kids a year here (20% of the class) go to NYC, and its certainly not the brass ring here. That's meaningful if you end up around median. We have a ton of median students going to v10 firms this year -- I'm not sure if Columbia can say the same.

EDIT: Notwithstanding the controversial-ness of my claim above, Chi is the clear choice of the three you've given me if your goal is NYC biglaw.

[sipy26]

Chicago is best for NY Biglaw (or any Biglaw). Reason being it's T6 and a part of CCN, as opposed to MVPB and Cornell, which is another tier below. Employers care about this stuff (grade cutoffs get higher as your law school gets lower in ranking)

Seems like you hate the place, but if employment prospects factor highly for you, Chicago is the best choice.

If you're not dead set on Biglaw, then Berkeley is completely fine, but I have a feeling if your not set on PI now, one year of law school won't change your mind. In my experience, the PI folk are usually fairly set on PI before entering law school. The guys who are ambivalent almost invariably end up partipating in OCIs and the hunt for Biglaw.

[BigZuck]

Do any of these schools have lay prestige?

Voted Berkeley. I guess cuz Asia?

[sipy26]

If money is truly not an issue, UChicago all the way, and I'd say to take them over Columbia. ~40 kids a year here (20% of the class) go to NYC, and its certainly not the brass ring here. That's meaningful if you end up around median. We have a ton of median students going to v10 firms this year -- I'm not sure if Columbia can say the same.

EDIT: Notwithstanding the controversial-ness of my claim above, Chi is the clear choice of the three you've given me if your goal is NYC biglaw.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=225080

CLS seems to be #1 in NLJ placement. I'd imagine their NY Biglaw placement would track accordingly.

[Hitchensian]

Where are you at with NYU?

[manu6926]

...

[aena]

Do any of these schools have lay prestige?

Voted Berkeley. I guess cuz Asia?

HAHA.

I threw in Cornell,
because, well, an ivy...?


Honestly, Uchicago would have the least lay prestige.

[aena]

Where are you at with NYU?

I have personal reasons to not attend.

[whereskyle]

Lay Prestige = H

[aena]

If you're not dead set on Biglaw, then Berkeley is completely fine, but I have a feeling if your not set on PI now, one year of law school won't change your mind. In my experience, the PI folk are usually fairly set on PI before entering law school. The guys who are ambivalent almost invariably end up partipating in OCIs and the hunt for Biglaw.

This is an interesting advice. Thank you, I will keep that in mind!

[aena]

Watchell recruits at Berkeley?
That is gold. I had no idea! Thanks so much!!

EDIT: Why don't they go to Michigan or UVA?

[gchatbrah]

If money is truly not an issue, UChicago all the way, and I'd say to take them over Columbia. ~40 kids a year here (20% of the class) go to NYC, and its certainly not the brass ring here. That's meaningful if you end up around median. We have a ton of median students going to v10 firms this year -- I'm not sure if Columbia can say the same.

EDIT: Notwithstanding the controversial-ness of my claim above, Chi is the clear choice of the three you've given me if your goal is NYC biglaw.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=225080

CLS seems to be #1 in NLJ placement. I'd imagine their NY Biglaw placement would track accordingly.

This is also a reflection of hiring 2 years ago. Our summer numbers were basically the same last year, and I imagine they're the same this year. I think it's a quality/quantity issue -- best of the best are competing for NYC biglaw at Columbia, but I can almost guarantee that, for the most part, the best of the best at UChicago are not. Having a widely-spread dispersion helps people who are dead-set on NYC biglaw here. But, like I said, the Chicago > Columbia preference is a controversial one; my answer in light of OP's other options is not.

[manu6926]

...

[omzster67]

One more issue: Did UG in Chicago, and I would rather die than return to that place for 3 more

Care to elaborate?

[jbagelboy]

If money is truly not an issue, UChicago all the way, and I'd say to take them over Columbia. ~40 kids a year here (20% of the class) go to NYC, and its certainly not the brass ring here. That's meaningful if you end up around median. We have a ton of median students going to v10 firms this year -- I'm not sure if Columbia can say the same.

EDIT: Notwithstanding the controversial-ness of my claim above, Chi is the clear choice of the three you've given me if your goal is NYC biglaw.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=225080

CLS seems to be #1 in NLJ placement. I'd imagine their NY Biglaw placement would track accordingly.

This is also a reflection of hiring 2 years ago. Our summer numbers were basically the same last year, and I imagine they're the same this year. I think it's a quality/quantity issue -- best of the best are competing for NYC biglaw at Columbia, but I can almost guarantee that, for the most part, the best of the best at UChicago are not. Having a widely-spread dispersion helps people who are dead-set on NYC biglaw here. But, like I said, the Chicago > Columbia preference is a controversial one; my answer in light of OP's other options is not.

None of what you've said about CLS (or implicitly NYU) is at all substantiated. Sounds like you are simply justifying your choice. I could do the same about choosing Columbia over Chicago.

Top kids at CLS go to SCOTUS, Bigfed, top DC firms, Wachtell, ect same as Chicago and every other top school. NYC biglaw is a safe haven for most students, not necessarily a target. Aside from clerking and gov, lot of people are interested in finance and consulting too. Vast majority summer at a large firm, but that is true across the T6.

Besides, you seem to have missed the point where OP said they would really rather avoid spending any more time in Chicago, and they aren't even considering CLS so the comparison is entirely gratuitious.

[twenty]

I vote Cornell, and here's why: Cornell gives out money like candy to anyone with numbers good enough to land Chicago. Aside from the Ivy = lay prestige thing, which is dumb, Cornell also places very, very well in NYC biglaw. The thing that seems to always hold people back from Cornell is the location, the weather, and the size of the school. You've indicated that not only are you very fine with Cornell on all three of those accounts, you don't want Chicago.

Negotiate them up to 75k+ a year and you're probably set.

[Shortterm12]

Lay prestige varies in Asia depending on where you want to work and I agree that lay prestige is extremely important in Asian society. For instance, if you were hoping to work in Singapore/HK (rich cities with many expats from all top schools), I think they would all be considered good (if I had to rank, it'd be 1. Berkeley 2. Cornell 3. UChicago). However, if you wanted to work somewhere like China, Berkeley definitely would be considered the best of the three. UChicago has very little lay prestige here, I don't think it has any in China.

[aboutmydaylight]

For whatever reason, Berkeley tends to dominate in lay prestige in Asia. I think almost everywhere you go in Asia, Berkeley will have more lay prestige than the other 2 schools. Even on the west coast in the US, the average person will know Berkeley and their reputation, while the average person will think Chicago is some random state school. I think Cornell is clearly the odd one out but it also should be the cheapest.

[Shortterm12]

For whatever reason, Berkeley tends to dominate in lay prestige in Asia. I think almost everywhere you go in Asia, Berkeley will have more lay prestige than the other 2 schools. Even on the west coast in the US, the average person will know Berkeley and their reputation, while the average person will think Chicago is some random state school. I think Cornell is clearly the odd one out but it also should be the cheapest.

I think it's because so many Asians go to Berkeley (it is a pretty big deal even in the Asian-American community to go to Berkeley) and it has very strong STEM programs. Overall rankings for American schools in Asia would probably be:
H S Y MIT Berkeley UCLA. I would say go to Berkeley OP, especially if money is not an issue, I think that would give you many more options than Cornell.

[worldtraveler]

I got a job offer in China due solely to the Berkeley name. I am completely unqualified for it, don't speak Chinese, and basically told them I'm probably not the best person for the job. Still got it somehow.

But I don't think lay prestige is necessarily how you should choose a law school.

[Shortterm12]

I got a job offer in China due solely to the Berkeley name. I am completely unqualified for it, don't speak Chinese, and basically told them I'm probably not the best person for the job. Still got it somehow.

But I don't think lay prestige is necessarily how you should choose a law school.

If you are only targeting jobs in the U.S, I definitely agree (UChicago kills Georgetown in placement while having much less lay prestige). However, if OP is seriously considering Asia, then I think he should take it into account. Also, I love the city of Berkeley and think it would be a great place to spend three years. Just my 2 cents, best of luck OP!

[star fox]

I don't see how cost can be no issue entirely. Sure, if you're not personally paying maybe it's only a minor issue. But none all together?

[aena]

I guess what I ultimately want is to get hired by biglaw and work for their office based in Asia, preferably China. However, I must admit that I have very little knowledge on how such foreign country office thing works, and I've never worked in Asia, so I really appreciate everyone's inputs about what extra qualities such as lay prestige I should consider.

Cornell seems to place well into NYC, but I'm not sure how well. To begin with, I don't know how much of law schools' employment stats I can trust. And I'm wondering if those NYC jobs are preserved only for Cornell's top 5% or top 20%.

Since it's never a guarantee that I will be the top 5% at Cornell, I am wondering if I will be "safer" at Berkeley given that it's known as the "better" school i.e. employers being more lenient towards my grades.

[star fox]

I guess what I ultimately want is to get hired by biglaw and work for their office based in Asia, preferably China. However, I must admit that I have very little knowledge on how such foreign country office thing works, and I've never worked in Asia, so I really appreciate everyone's inputs about what extra qualities such as lay prestige I should consider.

Cornell seems to place well into NYC, but I'm not sure how well. To begin with, I don't know how much of law schools' employment stats I can trust. And I'm wondering if those NYC jobs are preserved only for Cornell's top 5% or top 20%.

Since it's never a guarantee that I will be the top 5% at Cornell, I am wondering if I will be "safer" at Berkeley given that it's known as the "better" school i.e. employers being more lenient towards my grades.

Cornell placed 58 % of 2012 grads into BigLaw (100+ attorneys). http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=cornell. I would guess that's NYC dominated (0L here). Definitely don't need to be "top 5 %" (never hurts obviously..).