UCLA v. Notre Dame v. Fordham v. Seton Hall Forum

[RaiderRowing2010]

Hi all. I have finally heard back from all of the schools to which I have applied and now I eagerly enter my decision-making phase. I am a first generation lawyer in my family so I don't really have anyone who I can candidly ask about my choices. In choosing a law school I am looking for basically the best return on my investment with considerable weight also being given to the quality of life for students.

UCLA is my number one and the highest rank school to which I have been accepted. I was born and raised in North Jersey and I am currently a senior at Rutgers University. That being said, I love this place. I want to, without a doubt, return to the NYC area to practice law but I think the chance to get away and experience something new for 3 years would be an invaluable life experience.

But weighing over all the pushes to go to UCLA are two $10,000 a year scholarships to Notre Dame and Fordham (stipulations are only that I remain in good academic standing) and a FULL RIDE to Seton Hall Law. I should note that Seton Hall Law is almost exactly 15 minutes from my front-door back home.

I will be paying for law school by myself with loans taken out in my name.

Thoughts on the cost of UCLA being worth the experience? Also chances of moving back to the east coast for work? Or are Seton Hall and Fordham really more viable options than I'm giving them credit for?

[BigZuck]

I don't think UCLA at sticker is worth it if you're from CA and want to work in CA, let alone take the degree back east. UCLA is a non-starter in my opinion. Ditto Notre Dame and Fordham. Way too expensive.

Seton Hall is the only defensible choice, and that's if you have modest career goals (working at a small firm, district attorney or public defender's office, things like that). What do you want to do with your law degree?

[180kickflip]

I'd say Seton Hall 100%

But If you're not willing to just write the others off like that, I'd start by looking at how easy/hard it would be to get in state residency at UCLA. If you can get it relatively easy after the 1st year, then the total COA may be even to or cheaper than Fordham + Notre Dame (especially if you'd have to get your own place in NYC to attend Fordham).

[BigZuck]

I'd say Seton Hall 100%

But If you're not willing to just write the others off like that, I'd start by looking at how easy/hard it would be to get in state residency at UCLA. If you can get it relatively easy after the 1st year, then the total COA may be even to or cheaper than Fordham + Notre Dame (especially if you'd have to get your own place in NYC to attend Fordham).

Instate tuition at UCLA is a joke, it's 45K a year and rising every year, plus you have to pay west LA cost of living.

[kyle010723]

UCLA is my number one and the highest rank school to which I have been accepted. I was born and raised in North Jersey and I am currently a senior at Rutgers University. That being said, I love this place. I want to, without a doubt, return to the NYC area to practice law but I think the chance to get away and experience something new for 3 years would be an invaluable life experience.

Based on this paragraph, UCLA should not be one of your options.

[hopeful 0L]

To those arguing in favor of Seton Hall. What sort of COA is justifiable for the upgrade to a ND/USC type of school? Or to a back end T14 like Cornell or GULC?

[BigZuck]

To those arguing in favor of Seton Hall. What sort of COA is justifiable for the upgrade to a ND/USC type of school? Or to a back end T14 like Cornell or GULC?

Impossible to answer in a vacuum, totally dependent on career goals and personal factors.

If someone just wanted to be an ADA in Trenton, I would have to think that going to a school like Notre Dame would be more of a hinderance/downgrade than anything. It's too far from the home base to successfully network and hustle as much as one should to get that kind of job.

[180kickflip]

To those arguing in favor of Seton Hall. What sort of COA is justifiable for the upgrade to a ND/USC type of school? Or to a back end T14 like Cornell or GULC?

I can't imagine many situations where near sticker at USC/UCLA would make sense for someone 100% committed to a career on the east coast. That's especially true when you already have a full ride to a school in the market you actually want to work, that allows to live at home. It's more about the region than the COA.

If you had Cornell as an option, that would change everything to me. I'd be willing to pay 150k to go to Cornell if my end goal was NYC biglaw.

If you had GULC, were committed to government or PI, and ok with D.C., I'd probably pay 150k to go there as well.

All depends on the goals and how committed you are to that region.

[aboutmydaylight]

UCLA at sticker + Westwood COL seems like a terrible choice for east coast employment.

[Sgt Brody.]

I don't think UCLA at sticker is worth it if you're from CA and want to work in CA, let alone take the degree back east. UCLA is a non-starter in my opinion. Ditto Notre Dame and Fordham. Way too expensive.

Seton Hall is the only defensible choice, and that's if you have modest career goals (working at a small firm, district attorney or public defender's office, things like that). What do you want to do with your law degree?

Big Zuck, if you want to work in Southern California, would u still say that UCLA is not worth at sticker?

[BigZuck]

I don't think UCLA at sticker is worth it if you're from CA and want to work in CA, let alone take the degree back east. UCLA is a non-starter in my opinion. Ditto Notre Dame and Fordham. Way too expensive.

Seton Hall is the only defensible choice, and that's if you have modest career goals (working at a small firm, district attorney or public defender's office, things like that). What do you want to do with your law degree?

Big Zuck, if you want to work in Southern California, would u still say that UCLA is not worth at sticker?

Me personally? Yes. I mean, UCLA doesn't give you a particularly great shot at a high paying job. PSLF is great if you can get it but that's really tough, plus UCLA's LRAP isn't particularly good from what I understand. I think 100K for UCLA is defensible. But 230K+? No, that's way too risky.

[Sgt Brody.]

I don't think UCLA at sticker is worth it if you're from CA and want to work in CA, let alone take the degree back east. UCLA is a non-starter in my opinion. Ditto Notre Dame and Fordham. Way too expensive.

Seton Hall is the only defensible choice, and that's if you have modest career goals (working at a small firm, district attorney or public defender's office, things like that). What do you want to do with your law degree?

Big Zuck, if you want to work in Southern California, would u still say that UCLA is not worth at sticker?

Me personally? Yes. I mean, UCLA doesn't give you a particularly great shot at a high paying job. PSLF is great if you can get it but that's really tough, plus UCLA's LRAP isn't particularly good from what I understand. I think 100K for UCLA is defensible. But 230K+? No, that's way too risky.

fair enough, Im applying next cycle, and Im planning to apply ED to UCLA, as I go to under grad in southern california, and want to settle down here after law school as well. I totally understand the risks of ed- getting less scholly money in return of a very slight bump in admissions. I can understand how some people may not need that slight bump, but for me I would really like that and need that. So, at best I am looking at getting only 30 thousand in need based aid (ucla gives out good need based aid). And so my total cost of attendance would be somewhere form 175-180k. I get that it might be a little on your higher side, and frankly it is a little high for me too, but the way I look at it, I want and need to be in southern cali, and UCLA is the best law school in the region, and gives me the best shot at any job I want here in this region (preferably a big firm job). So, yes even though UCLA may not be as good as T14, wont you say my reasoning is ok as it is the best school in the region, and it has the best employment numbers in the region I want to work too.

[Hitchensian]

Notre Dame or Seton Hall, given the circumstances you've outlined.

[Tiago Splitter]

fair enough, Im applying next cycle, and Im planning to apply ED to UCLA, as I go to under grad in southern california, and want to settle down here after law school as well. I totally understand the risks of ed- getting less scholly money in return of a very slight bump in admissions. I can understand how some people may not need that slight bump, but for me I would really like that and need that. So, at best I am looking at getting only 30 thousand in need based aid (ucla gives out good need based aid). And so my total cost of attendance would be somewhere form 175-180k. I get that it might be a little on your higher side, and frankly it is a little high for me too, but the way I look at it, I want and need to be in southern cali, and UCLA is the best law school in the region, and gives me the best shot at any job I want here in this region (preferably a big firm job). So, yes even though UCLA may not be as good as T14, wont you say my reasoning is ok as it is the best school in the region, and it has the best employment numbers in the region I want to work too.

First of all, don't count on any need based aid. If you think you'll qualify for a lot of need based aid, you shouldn't be applying ED given what need based aid says about your financial situation. But just as importantly, USC exists. Retake the LSAT and put yourself in a position to be courted by both USC and UCLA. With apps dropping the way they are, you will get into one of them at a far cheaper price than what you'd be looking at from UCLA ED, especially since you can apply broadly and use other scholarships for leverage.

OP I see from your post history that you are under review at Duke. It sounds like you might need to let this play out a little longer. Hopefully you applied to a lot more places.

[Big Dog]

Im planning to apply ED to UCLA,

Really bad idea for someone who wants to do immigration law (which is generally very low scale); most work accomplished by paralegals.

[LafayetteJeff]

Try to get another 10k out of Fordham, that could change your equation IMO.

UCLA has enough stature to get you back into your desired market, but it is risky to put down that much money.

Seton is low risk/reward, and less stress, which you can't pay for. Did you try Rutgers, out of curiosity?

[ndirish2010]

Retake for more money at Fordham or Cornell.