Deleted Forum

[kiadak231]

Deleted

[Clearly]

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=206299

[Chriz]

Retake and then apply elsewhere.

[rickgrimes69]

The answer is probably going to be "neither" unless you're going for free

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

Hey everyone! I was hoping that I could get advice on the two schools I am stuck between. Neither school is near me and both are about 1100 miles away.

St. Marys- $13000/year scholarship, renewal with a 3.0. I have tried getting more money and getting stips removed but they will not budge. Cons- I have heard the curve is incredibly harsh and most students lose their scholarship after year one. But I feel that being in a big city may work more to my advantage and, in the long run, I may have a better chance at a job. They employment rate is also higher than Gonzaga.

Gonzaga- $21,000/year scholarship, renewal with a 2.75, no luck with more money either. My big con with this school is that it is in Spokane. I do not know if I am ok living in small town Idaho or Washington forever. Other then that I have heard good things about Gonzaga.

Any opinions? Please no retake and apply elsewhere.

I'm not a snob. Please retake and apply elsewhere.

[rad lulz]

m

[BVest]

Hey everyone! I was hoping that I could get advice on the two schools I am stuck between. Neither school is near me and both are about 1100 miles away.

St. Marys- $13000/year scholarship, renewal with a 3.0. I have tried getting more money and getting stips removed but they will not budge. Cons- I have heard the curve is incredibly harsh and most students lose their scholarship after year one. But I feel that being in a big city may work more to my advantage and, in the long run, I may have a better chance at a job. They employment rate is also higher than Gonzaga.

Gonzaga- $21,000/year scholarship, renewal with a 2.75, no luck with more money either. My big con with this school is that it is in Spokane. I do not know if I am ok living in small town Idaho or Washington forever. Other then that I have heard good things about Gonzaga.

Any opinions? Please no retake and apply elsewhere.

First of all, these are not schools you travel 1100 miles to attend.

Secondly, the curve is publicly available. 3.0 at St. Mary's is top 25%. 3 out of 4 students will lose their money.
https://www.stmarytx.edu/academics/law/ ... ks-grades/

Third, San Antonio has a large population, but it's not a big city; it is a surprisingly small and insular community. San Antonio's law community is likewise surprisingly small. That leave's St. Mary's grads fighting for jobs in Austin, Dallas, and Houston, where they're on the home turf of students from the other Texas schools.

I can't speak to Gonzaga, except that the 1L curve is 2.6 to 2.9, so 2.75 is probably top half. Of you and your neighbor in class, one of you is likely losing your money.

[Skump]

St. Mary's vs. Gonzaga

This should be a choice between weed varieties, not law schools. Though appropriately enough, you would have to be high to attend either.

[BigZuck]

You really need to retake and apply elsewhere. It's debateable whether someone should attend these schools for free if they lived in the cities where the schools were located. Travelling across the country and paying a bunch of money to attend makes these both a non-starter.

[downinDtown]

Hey everyone! I was hoping that I could get advice on the two schools I am stuck between. Neither school is near me and both are about 1100 miles away.

St. Marys- $13000/year scholarship, renewal with a 3.0. I have tried getting more money and getting stips removed but they will not budge. Cons- I have heard the curve is incredibly harsh and most students lose their scholarship after year one. But I feel that being in a big city may work more to my advantage and, in the long run, I may have a better chance at a job. They employment rate is also higher than Gonzaga.

Gonzaga- $21,000/year scholarship, renewal with a 2.75, no luck with more money either. My big con with this school is that it is in Spokane. I do not know if I am ok living in small town Idaho or Washington forever. Other then that I have heard good things about Gonzaga.

Any opinions? Please no retake and apply elsewhere.

As other poster mentioned, although San Antonio is a big city, it has a very small, insular legal market. People with good grades from other TX schools have trouble getting in if they're not from the area. Plus, UT kids going to San Antonio will take all the "premium" job outcomes, leaving the scraps for you. Even if you were to keep that scholly $$$ for all 3 years, you're still looking at $100K+ of debt (assuming you're borrowing for living expenses, etc.) graduating from St. Marys. And look at the employment outcomes: there's a large chance you won't even end up as a lawyer.

Gonzaga is just west of BFE. Spokane is not that big of a city and has no real legal market to speak of. Again, even if you kept that scholarship for all 3 years, you'd still have 100K in debt. Being a small-town lawyer or working in a random non-legal job or unemployment may not cut it to pay that back.

As to the grade/scholarships, TTT(T)s like Gonzaga and St. Mary's are setting you up for failure. The curve is set very low, making it very difficult to keep your grades high enough to maintain your scholarship, while also precluding you from pursuing transfer opportunities to law schools that give you more of a legitimate chance at finding legal employment (which is, after all, the point of going to law school). So after the first year, you will likely have: (1) bad/average grades (because statistics and everything); (2) no more scholarship; (3) lots more debt; (4) no transfer opportunities; and (5) no job opportunities.

Do not fall into the cognitive trap that because you are getting a scholarship at these schools, that you are a special "snowflake" and are guaranteed successful grade outcomes. Law school exams can be very unpredictable and are different from other tests you've ever taken. Law schools like Gonzaga and St. Mary's are struggling to fill their classes with enough warm bodies so they have to throw scholarship money at people to convince them to ignore the reality of the crappy job prospects that students face at those schools.

Here are the LST data for what job prospects are for graduates of both schools:
St. Mary's: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=stmarys
Gonzaga: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=gonzaga

If you are going to think about this logically--which is an important skill to have as a law student or as a lawyer--you will reassess these options, and decide that spending another 6 months to a year of your life to place yourself in a much better position to attend a better law school (or at least attend a more regional school for free, without any strings attached) is the correct response.

TL;DR: You're going to be borrowing AT LEAST $100K and spending 3 years of your life for a 50% chance at even becoming a lawyer, and even then, the likelihood that it's the type of legal job you're thinking it will be is basically nil. Improve your career trajectory by going to a better school or minimizing your debt to as close to $0 as possible is the best option. To do so, you'll need to retake the LSAT. As the famous philosopher Nike once said: "Just do it"

[downinDtown]

Hey everyone! I was hoping that I could get advice on the two schools I am stuck between. Neither school is near me and both are about 1100 miles away.

St. Marys- $13000/year scholarship, renewal with a 3.0. I have tried getting more money and getting stips removed but they will not budge. Cons- I have heard the curve is incredibly harsh and most students lose their scholarship after year one. But I feel that being in a big city may work more to my advantage and, in the long run, I may have a better chance at a job. They employment rate is also higher than Gonzaga.

Gonzaga- $21,000/year scholarship, renewal with a 2.75, no luck with more money either. My big con with this school is that it is in Spokane. I do not know if I am ok living in small town Idaho or Washington forever. Other then that I have heard good things about Gonzaga.

Any opinions? Please no retake and apply elsewhere.

OP, also look at this site for information on Conditional Scholarships: http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/re ... olarships/. Only 20% of St. Mary's conditional scholarships were renewed. Gonzaga is higher %, but you should weigh this into your consideration.