Wake Forest ($$$) vs William & Mary ($$) Forum

[jhermes]

Admitted to both, I am married with no kids so I will not need to incur debt for living expenses.

$32,000 at Wake ($41,500 tuition). $28,500 for three years.

$19,000 W&M ($38,000 tuition). $57,000 for three years.


I would be fine with working in either VA or NC. Both offers are guaranteed with good academic standing. Which is better? Is W&M worth paying twice as much? I am interested in IP and my impression is that W&M is better in that field, but the additional cost might be prohibitive.

I will have $27,000 in debt from undergrad going in and would love to keep the whole thing under $60K, which is why I am leaning toward Wake at thing point.

Input appreciated!

[BigZuck]

Please answer these questions in order to receive the best advice possible:
http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 1&t=206299

[Optimist Prime]

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[TheSpanishMain]

Have you looked into the market for IP in both states? I'm definitely not an expert, but from what I understand NC has a booming research industry that might yield some good opportunities.

[AT9]

Tagging in as I have the same offer at W&M and a slightly higher offer at Wake...

I don't see how W&M would be worth twice as much, but I'm interested to see the discussion.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

It looks from lawschooltransparency.com that they're peers--w&l has a higher % (67 vs 73) of jobs at graduation, but 20% are school funded, and 20% are government. Wf has only 2% school funded jobs. It's hard to tell from the information they give what the differences are in terms of IP placement.

I'm a big advocate of following the $. Either school you're likely going to be limited to the region, and they're neighboring states so that doesn't seem like a big factor.

[sl5uw13]

Take a look at when you would be able to apply for residency in VA. That may lower your cost at W&M by 10K.

you can get instate your 2L year

[Ramius]

Take a look at when you would be able to apply for residency in VA. That may lower your cost at W&M by 10K.

you can get instate your 2L year

Untrue. VA residency is pretty tough to get and being a student in the state is not sufficient. See W&M website for reqs.

http://www.wm.edu/offices/registrar/stu ... /domicile/

[LET'S GET IT]

Assuming the offers don't change, I vote for Wake. The employment outcomes seem negligible and it's half the price.

[Optimist Prime]

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[BigZuck]

Take a look at when you would be able to apply for residency in VA. That may lower your cost at W&M by 10K.

you can get instate your 2L year

Untrue. VA residency is pretty tough to get and being a student in the state is not sufficient. See W&M website for reqs.

http://www.wm.edu/offices/registrar/stu ... /domicile/

I'm obviously no lawyer, but couldn't this be read as at the start of your 2L year you've established domicile for 12 months so now you just have to prove intent to remain in VA after you graduate?

OP, if this does factor into your decision you could just call the fin aid office and ask how successful students are in gaining residency for their 2L year.

Not a lawyer either and this is not legal advice, but it does say you need "clear and convincing evidence" that you have established a new domicile to rebut the presumption that you just came to VA to go to school. From what I have heard, it's really hard to establish VA residency. Might require buying a house.

[FoxInSocks]

Wake for sure. Charlotte and Raleigh will both be drawing from WFU. They have a widespread alumni base as well, so if you get solid grades you should be able to make the transition to DC property law if you felt the need. I don't think W&M offers anything job-wise that WFU wouldn't. Most of the practicing IP attorneys I've talked to said that you gain most of your skills on the job anyway; law school simply gives you a foundation.

That being said, Winston-Salem isn't exactly a cultural epicenter. But if you're debating W&M, I'm assuming city life isn't one of your priorities as far as law school goes.

Edit: I'm from Winston-Salem and also on the IP track.

[deadpanic]

Not a lawyer either and this is not legal advice, but it does say you need "clear and convincing evidence" that you have established a new domicile to rebut the presumption that you just came to VA to go to school. From what I have heard, it's really hard to establish VA residency. Might require buying a house.

Yeah, from what I understand, this is correct. KY and some other states are similar. Generally, you have to show you came to VA to work - and then show that you worked for a full year while not doing any school (on top of getting new tags, voter registration, paying taxes, etc.).

I would just go to Wake in your situation. W&M isn't worth twice as much.

[Ramius]

Take a look at when you would be able to apply for residency in VA. That may lower your cost at W&M by 10K.

you can get instate your 2L year

Untrue. VA residency is pretty tough to get and being a student in the state is not sufficient. See W&M website for reqs.

http://www.wm.edu/offices/registrar/stu ... /domicile/

I'm obviously no lawyer, but couldn't this be read as at the start of your 2L year you've established domicile for 12 months so now you just have to prove intent to remain in VA after you graduate?

OP, if this does factor into your decision you could just call the fin aid office and ask how successful students are in gaining residency for their 2L year.

VA requires you establish residency prior to matriculation, not during. I've never seen someone successfully gain residency after the fact. Maybe it can be done if you buy a house, get a new drivers license, etc., but when I was applying to schools, it required I have established residency for more than 12 months prior to starting. But I'm sure fin aid office could clear all of this up better than me.

It's probably moot anyway since OP should not pick W&M over WF even if they could get in-state 2L year. It's not worth the extra cost.

[Optimist Prime]

Wake for sure. Charlotte and Raleigh will both be drawing from WFU. They have a widespread alumni base as well, so if you get solid grades you should be able to make the transition to DC property law if you felt the need. I don't think W&M offers anything job-wise that WFU wouldn't. Most of the practicing IP attorneys I've talked to said that you gain most of your skills on the job anyway; law school simply gives you a foundation.

That being said, Winston-Salem isn't exactly a cultural epicenter. But if you're debating W&M, I'm assuming city life isn't one of your priorities as far as law school goes.

Edit: I'm from Winston-Salem and also on the IP track.

I visited Wake many years ago, am I right in remembering that there is a mega-church near the law school?

I also agree that at double the price W&M isn't worth it. OP it's a bit too early to do this yet, but you should have a plan to negotiate those scholarships?

[FoxInSocks]

Wake for sure. Charlotte and Raleigh will both be drawing from WFU. They have a widespread alumni base as well, so if you get solid grades you should be able to make the transition to DC property law if you felt the need. I don't think W&M offers anything job-wise that WFU wouldn't. Most of the practicing IP attorneys I've talked to said that you gain most of your skills on the job anyway; law school simply gives you a foundation.

That being said, Winston-Salem isn't exactly a cultural epicenter. But if you're debating W&M, I'm assuming city life isn't one of your priorities as far as law school goes.

Edit: I'm from Winston-Salem and also on the IP track.

I visited Wake many years ago, am I right in remembering that there is a mega-church near the law school?

I also agree that at double the price W&M isn't worth it. OP it's a bit too early to do this yet, but you should have a plan to negotiate those scholarships?

Yep! First Assembly --LinkRemoved-- it's right across the road from the law school. WS is no exception to the "church on every corner" adage.