UMich vs. Chicago Forum
- tenniscourt
- Posts: 279
- Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:00 pm
UMich vs. Chicago
Which should I choose? U Michigan with scholarship $$$ or Chicago at sticker. Ultimately I want to practice in Chicago which makes UChi attractive but I also want to keep costs down so living in a college town with a scholarship also is attractive. Which would be my best bet?
-
- Posts: 196
- Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:41 pm
Re: UMich vs. Chicago
.
Last edited by riverwater on Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
- bruinfan10
- Posts: 658
- Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:25 am
Re: UMich vs. Chicago
Chicago obviously has better job placement in its home city, but Michigan is the next closest T14 to your market. If we're talking like $75k at Michigan versus NOTHING at Chicago, isn't Mich a no-brainer? But yeah, include all the relevant info and maybe throw up a poll if you want more useful info dooder.
Edit: Duh, NW is closer, sorry about that. I don't know what I was thinking.
Edit: Duh, NW is closer, sorry about that. I don't know what I was thinking.
Last edited by bruinfan10 on Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:08 pm
Re: UMich vs. Chicago
Did Northwestern offer you anything? Or have you already decided against them? In terms of living in Chicago I would rather live and attend school by the Northwestern campus than the south side where Chi is.
- 2014
- Posts: 6028
- Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:53 pm
Re: UMich vs. Chicago
I bet you get 30 or 45k at Chicago plus our COA is cheaper than Michigan's though not by a huge margin.
On one hand, the ~50k+interest or whatever you will save by going to Michigan is nothing to scoff at. That's an extra 2 years or so at least paying loans on a big law salary.
On the other hand, Chicago places ~70 or so students a year in the city while Michigan places ~35 (some of this might be self selection of course). Literally 17 of Kirkland's 37 incoming summers are coming from U of C. The job placement advantage in the city cannot be overstated. Additionally, looking at backup markets, Chicago carries a 20ish percent overall firm placement advantage over Michigan. Given that the career income differential between someone who gets a 2L SA vs someone who doesn't is almost certainly more than $250,000 (50k/20%), Chicago is very likely to be cost justified. It just depends how risk averse you are. In your shoes I would choose Chicago but full disclosure in pretty much everyone's shoes I would choose Chicago.
On one hand, the ~50k+interest or whatever you will save by going to Michigan is nothing to scoff at. That's an extra 2 years or so at least paying loans on a big law salary.
On the other hand, Chicago places ~70 or so students a year in the city while Michigan places ~35 (some of this might be self selection of course). Literally 17 of Kirkland's 37 incoming summers are coming from U of C. The job placement advantage in the city cannot be overstated. Additionally, looking at backup markets, Chicago carries a 20ish percent overall firm placement advantage over Michigan. Given that the career income differential between someone who gets a 2L SA vs someone who doesn't is almost certainly more than $250,000 (50k/20%), Chicago is very likely to be cost justified. It just depends how risk averse you are. In your shoes I would choose Chicago but full disclosure in pretty much everyone's shoes I would choose Chicago.
Want to continue reading?
Register now to search topics and post comments!
Absolutely FREE!
Already a member? Login
- jbagelboy
- Posts: 10361
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm
Re: UMich vs. Chicago
Full ride + CoL covered in new haven at Yale vs. sticker loan debt at UChi, GO2014 wrote:I bet you get 30 or 45k at Chicago plus our COA is cheaper than Michigan's though not by a huge margin.
On one hand, the ~50k+interest or whatever you will save by going to Michigan is nothing to scoff at. That's an extra 2 years or so at least paying loans on a big law salary.
On the other hand, Chicago places ~70 or so students a year in the city while Michigan places ~35 (some of this might be self selection of course). Literally 17 of Kirkland's 37 incoming summers are coming from U of C. The job placement advantage in the city cannot be overstated. Additionally, looking at backup markets, Chicago carries a 20ish percent overall firm placement advantage over Michigan. Given that the career income differential between someone who gets a 2L SA vs someone who doesn't is almost certainly more than $250,000 (50k/20%), Chicago is very likely to be cost justified. It just depends how risk averse you are. In your shoes I would choose Chicago but full disclosure in pretty much everyone's shoes I would choose Chicago.
- Winston1984
- Posts: 1789
- Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:02 pm
Re: UMich vs. Chicago
Yale lacks dat rigor.jbagelboy wrote:Full ride + CoL covered in new haven at Yale vs. sticker loan debt at UChi, GO2014 wrote:I bet you get 30 or 45k at Chicago plus our COA is cheaper than Michigan's though not by a huge margin.
On one hand, the ~50k+interest or whatever you will save by going to Michigan is nothing to scoff at. That's an extra 2 years or so at least paying loans on a big law salary.
On the other hand, Chicago places ~70 or so students a year in the city while Michigan places ~35 (some of this might be self selection of course). Literally 17 of Kirkland's 37 incoming summers are coming from U of C. The job placement advantage in the city cannot be overstated. Additionally, looking at backup markets, Chicago carries a 20ish percent overall firm placement advantage over Michigan. Given that the career income differential between someone who gets a 2L SA vs someone who doesn't is almost certainly more than $250,000 (50k/20%), Chicago is very likely to be cost justified. It just depends how risk averse you are. In your shoes I would choose Chicago but full disclosure in pretty much everyone's shoes I would choose Chicago.
- 2014
- Posts: 6028
- Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:53 pm
Re: UMich vs. Chicago
School is shit - see e.g. NLJ250 placement - discounting argument still works. Plus Yale people get canned earlier than Chicago people because our work ethic is better and the hippies have career ADD.jbagelboy wrote:Full ride + CoL covered in new haven at Yale vs. sticker loan debt at UChi, GO2014 wrote:I bet you get 30 or 45k at Chicago plus our COA is cheaper than Michigan's though not by a huge margin.
On one hand, the ~50k+interest or whatever you will save by going to Michigan is nothing to scoff at. That's an extra 2 years or so at least paying loans on a big law salary.
On the other hand, Chicago places ~70 or so students a year in the city while Michigan places ~35 (some of this might be self selection of course). Literally 17 of Kirkland's 37 incoming summers are coming from U of C. The job placement advantage in the city cannot be overstated. Additionally, looking at backup markets, Chicago carries a 20ish percent overall firm placement advantage over Michigan. Given that the career income differential between someone who gets a 2L SA vs someone who doesn't is almost certainly more than $250,000 (50k/20%), Chicago is very likely to be cost justified. It just depends how risk averse you are. In your shoes I would choose Chicago but full disclosure in pretty much everyone's shoes I would choose Chicago.
ADDITIONALLY - You have to take into account the value of your happiness (Chicago > New Haven) as well as your discounted chances of being shanked or shot (a narrow win for Chicago here) both of which are priceless!
- jbagelboy
- Posts: 10361
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm
Re: UMich vs. Chicago
lol. you really wanted to take it on crime in Chicago? I mean, I was joking, but.. yea you really will sink pretty deep into it in defense of your city2014 wrote:School is shit - see e.g. NLJ250 placement - discounting argument still works. Plus Yale people get canned earlier than Chicago people because our work ethic is better and the hippies have career ADD.jbagelboy wrote:Full ride + CoL covered in new haven at Yale vs. sticker loan debt at UChi, GO2014 wrote:I bet you get 30 or 45k at Chicago plus our COA is cheaper than Michigan's though not by a huge margin.
On one hand, the ~50k+interest or whatever you will save by going to Michigan is nothing to scoff at. That's an extra 2 years or so at least paying loans on a big law salary.
On the other hand, Chicago places ~70 or so students a year in the city while Michigan places ~35 (some of this might be self selection of course). Literally 17 of Kirkland's 37 incoming summers are coming from U of C. The job placement advantage in the city cannot be overstated. Additionally, looking at backup markets, Chicago carries a 20ish percent overall firm placement advantage over Michigan. Given that the career income differential between someone who gets a 2L SA vs someone who doesn't is almost certainly more than $250,000 (50k/20%), Chicago is very likely to be cost justified. It just depends how risk averse you are. In your shoes I would choose Chicago but full disclosure in pretty much everyone's shoes I would choose Chicago.
ADDITIONALLY - You have to take into account the value of your happiness (Chicago > New Haven) as well as your discounted chances of being shanked or shot (a narrow win for Chicago here) both of which are priceless!
- skers
- Posts: 5230
- Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:33 am
Re: UMich vs. Chicago
lol, just lol.jbagelboy wrote:lol. you really wanted to take it on crime in Chicago? I mean, I was joking, but.. yea you really will sink pretty deep into it in defense of your city2014 wrote:School is shit - see e.g. NLJ250 placement - discounting argument still works. Plus Yale people get canned earlier than Chicago people because our work ethic is better and the hippies have career ADD.jbagelboy wrote:Full ride + CoL covered in new haven at Yale vs. sticker loan debt at UChi, GO2014 wrote:I bet you get 30 or 45k at Chicago plus our COA is cheaper than Michigan's though not by a huge margin.
On one hand, the ~50k+interest or whatever you will save by going to Michigan is nothing to scoff at. That's an extra 2 years or so at least paying loans on a big law salary.
On the other hand, Chicago places ~70 or so students a year in the city while Michigan places ~35 (some of this might be self selection of course). Literally 17 of Kirkland's 37 incoming summers are coming from U of C. The job placement advantage in the city cannot be overstated. Additionally, looking at backup markets, Chicago carries a 20ish percent overall firm placement advantage over Michigan. Given that the career income differential between someone who gets a 2L SA vs someone who doesn't is almost certainly more than $250,000 (50k/20%), Chicago is very likely to be cost justified. It just depends how risk averse you are. In your shoes I would choose Chicago but full disclosure in pretty much everyone's shoes I would choose Chicago.
ADDITIONALLY - You have to take into account the value of your happiness (Chicago > New Haven) as well as your discounted chances of being shanked or shot (a narrow win for Chicago here) both of which are priceless!
The decision really comes down to how Chicago or bust you are and what your ties to the Chicago market are. Based on what I know from both schools, if you don't have anything Chicago in your background, I think you're going to have a hard time selling Chicago at Michigan. Sure, it typically places decently in Chicago, but after '08 I don't really Michigan is sufficient for ties as it may have been previously. The more willing you are to split targets in New York, the more attractive the Michigan $$$ is.
- Optimist Prime
- Posts: 200
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:28 pm
Re: UMich vs. Chicago
-
Last edited by Optimist Prime on Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Rurik
- Posts: 107
- Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:35 pm
Re: UMich vs. Chicago
I also heard that not one of Kirkland's incoming summers is from UMich.2014 wrote:Literally 17 of Kirkland's 37 incoming summers are coming from U of C.
- jbagelboy
- Posts: 10361
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm
Re: UMich vs. Chicago
The real answer is, this isn't a realistic scenario if you play your cards right. I got $67K from Michigan and $45K from UChi last cycle. I think this spread is pretty typical. If you're getting "$$$" at Michigan, that nomenclature on TLS typically implies $100K+. So Chicago has no reason to hold out on you under $60K. What are your numbers?
If you haven't tried yet, Chicago has an application available to bump merit aid on their admissions website. You just attach competing offers. Give it a try if you haven't already
If you haven't tried yet, Chicago has an application available to bump merit aid on their admissions website. You just attach competing offers. Give it a try if you haven't already
Register now!
Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.
It's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
- bruinfan10
- Posts: 658
- Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:25 am
Re: UMich vs. Chicago
.
Last edited by bruinfan10 on Thu May 08, 2014 4:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
-
- Posts: 12612
- Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:16 am
Re: UMich vs. Chicago
Are you talking about U Chicago or Kirkland?bruinfan10 wrote:that ninth circle of frozen hellhole sweatshop.
- 2014
- Posts: 6028
- Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:53 pm
Re: UMich vs. Chicago
Lol ok. So the ~40% or whatever who didn't land SAs from Michigan didn't want them?bruinfan10 wrote: Wolverines who actually want to work in that ninth circle of frozen hellhole sweatshop can do it no problem. .
- bruinfan10
- Posts: 658
- Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:25 am
Re: UMich vs. Chicago
.
Last edited by bruinfan10 on Thu May 08, 2014 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Get unlimited access to all forums and topics
Register now!
I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...
Already a member? Login
- Rurik
- Posts: 107
- Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:35 pm
Re: UMich vs. Chicago
If you're referring to me, I wasn't saying that UMichigan students can't get Kirkland Chicago. It was that not one UMich student was an incoming summer associate at Kirkland Chicago, which many believe (for good reason) is the best law firm in the city of Chicago. I hear there are going to be a ton of people from other T14 schools (e.g. Harvard, Stanford, UChicago, Northwestern, etc), but nobody from UMichigan. As for the story that all UMich people must just be self-selecting away from Kirkland Chicago and that's the reason there are no incoming SAs, come on, that's a joke. You think there are 17 UChicago students and 0 UMichigan students (also note that UMichigan is, what, like twice the size of UChicago?) because of UMich students' self-selection??bruinfan10 wrote:The kids who are saying Michigan can't get Kirkland Chicago are smoking crack.
- bruinfan10
- Posts: 658
- Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:25 am
Re: UMich vs. Chicago
.
Last edited by bruinfan10 on Thu May 08, 2014 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- 2014
- Posts: 6028
- Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:53 pm
Re: UMich vs. Chicago
I didn't mean to drag this thread off with the Kirkland talk, my point was that in non-NYC markets there tends to be few firms that hold a disproportionate amount of the SAs in the city and if you know you want to be in that city, you have to seriously consider those schools. Of course Michigan can and does place at Kirkland, Sidley, Jenner, Mayer Brown, etc in Chicago, but U.Chi and to a lesser extent NU fill up a very sizable chunk of the limited slots. For someone who knows they want to be in Chicago, that has to justify some additional cost differential. That applies to the U.Chi/NU vs Any school decision, not just Michigan.
For someone who just wants any job in any market, it's a lot easier to figure out what their scholarship indifference point should be, but once you start throwing in preferences it becomes more difficult which is why it tends to be safer to just take the higher ranked school. Furthermore, Michigan having no real home market makes it a really tough sell to people who have any strong market preference unless the scholarship differential is huge, and since Michigan is not overly generous, it tends not to be.
For someone who just wants any job in any market, it's a lot easier to figure out what their scholarship indifference point should be, but once you start throwing in preferences it becomes more difficult which is why it tends to be safer to just take the higher ranked school. Furthermore, Michigan having no real home market makes it a really tough sell to people who have any strong market preference unless the scholarship differential is huge, and since Michigan is not overly generous, it tends not to be.
-
- Posts: 3070
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:17 am
Re: UMich vs. Chicago
.
Last edited by 20141023 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- 2014
- Posts: 6028
- Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:53 pm
Re: UMich vs. Chicago
I know of several going to K&E who aren't on LR and several who are. I don't know the exact numbers but no, not all of the 17 are on LR lol.
Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.
Register now, it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login